The DRP debate club, Round WHAT??

[packsaddle]

Yes.

 

 

 

Edited part: OK, that looks weird at the top of the page all by itself. OGE, I heard similar concerns regarding racial integration. The loudmouths who were strongly opposed, often claimed opposition on the basis of their religious beliefs. Some of the ones I knew, anyway, did choose to leave. Was it therefore wrong to integrate the units?

My point is, we already have units with gay leaders. No big deal. The noise is being made by people who think it IS a big deal.

 

Moreover, the undertone of your question implies a G2SS concern, rather than some religious-based moral objection. Is that your point? Is that really where you want to take this discussion...again? Is the BSA denial of membership based on G2SS concerns? Or on oath and law interpretations? I thought it was based on the oath and law, not G2SS. Am I wrong?(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[GernBlansten]

Mark me down as a yes too.

I don't associate homosexuality with pedophilia.

I also don't associate atheism with morally twisted.

Either would be fine with me.

[gwd-scouter]

GoldWinger - just exactly what do they say about middle aged women? (I would put a smiley face thingy here, but I don't know how).

 

Back to the thread - in the many years and times I've helped out with recruiting nights and roundups, only once was the DRP mentioned. I would say that the majority of adults that sign up as leaders have no idea about DRP. Or, if they do, they do not know precisely what it says. At least in my neck of the woods, parents and adults leaders think that the BSA is a Christian organization.

 

I would agree with those that state that if the BSA thinks it is so important for members to agree to and sign the DRP, then it ought to make it more pronounced. At every recruiting night and roundup, the organizer should announce at the beginning that the BSA doesn't think an adult can be a good leader and no boy can grow into the right kind of adult unless they have a belief in god. After announcing that, the organizer should go on to say that the BSA doesn't define that god or how a person goes about practicing his/her belief.

 

In reality, I just don't see this happening.

[FScouter]

"The noise is being made by people who think it IS a big deal."

 

Are you referring to the "noise" being made by those that want in, or that of those that want to keep them out?

 

All "noise" on any topic is made by those that object. Those that like it, believe in it, or are complacent remain silent. Without noise, we'd be a nation of apathetic drones.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Bob White writes:

So what exactly is secret about the Values of the Oath and Law Merlyn?

 

It seems to be pretty secret when government entities sign chartering agreements. Public schools could not have been the largest chartering partner of cub scout packs in 1998 if the BSA's exclusion of atheists was obvious.

[Gonzo1]

The signing of a chartering agreement is SECRET? It's a part of the congressional record. Public document, not secret.

 

Congress can charter just about anything. Why not ask your congressman to charter your atheist group? I bet that with some effort, you could charter your own atheist scout type group. Oh wait, there already is one, I think it's Scouting for All, maybe Spiral Scouts too. Start another, you can be Grand Poobah!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Gonzo, the BSA deliberately didn't tell public schools that they would have to violate the civil rights of atheist students by excluding them from public school chartered packs, because the BSA isn't honest.

[evmori]

No Gonzo, the BSA deliberately didn't tell public schools that they would have to violate the civil rights of atheist students by excluding them from public school chartered packs, because the BSA isn't honest.

 

Don't ya think that maybe the public schools shoulda known that? Maybe some of the responsibility should be placed on them as well!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

FScouter, I agree. But then, I'm ok with noise.

[vol_scouter]

Just as a clarification. Pedophiles have sexual relationships with prepubescent children. The relationships are typically heterosexual though not always. If the child has developed secondary sex characteristics (i.e. started in puberty), then sexual relationships are not those of a pedophile. If the relationship is of the same sex, then it is homosexual when done for sexual gratification. The relationship may be same sex and not be homosexual in nature if the reason is dominance (as is seen in prisons). Once again, if the child is going through puberty or post-pubertal, same sex gratification is a homosexual relationship.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

Don't ya think that maybe the public schools shoulda known that?

 

Exactly my point, Ed. The BSA certainly didn't make it clear that chartering a BSA unit required religious discrimination, because public schools wouldn't have chartered any.

[Gonzo1]

I'm no lawyer, but I don't see how anyone's civil rights were ever violated because someone couldn't join a private club? Start your own, if I can't join YOUR club, would you be violating MY civil rights?

 

I think whether someone joins a club or group or BSA is more a PRIVILEDGE, not a right.

 

Edited part:

You have the right to be served in a restaurant, sit where you want on the bus, go to school, attend a place of worship of your choice. You don't have the right to join a private organization.

 

Meet the joining requirements, then join.(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

[Gold Winger]

"You have the right to be served in a restaurant, sit where you want on the bus, go to school, attend a place of worship of your choice."

 

Hmmmmmm . . . not always.

[Gonzo1]

GW,

Please explain further.

Can't you be served anywhere?

Can't you attend you church of choice?

Can't you sit anywhere on the bus?

 

I'll conceed now that you must pay the bus fare, maybe be appropriately dressed for some restaurants and have the money to pay.

 

 

[evmori]

Ed writes:

Don't ya think that maybe the public schools shoulda known that?

 

Exactly my point, Ed. The BSA certainly didn't make it clear that chartering a BSA unit required religious discrimination, because public schools wouldn't have chartered any.

 

No Merlyn, you missed my point.

 

Public school officials know they can't discriminate. Along comes the BSA asking them to charted a unit & they say OK & sign on the dotted line without understanding what they are signing. They are just as guilty of not asking as the BSA is of not telling.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10