Federal funds and scouting

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Pack212Scouter, I've been a scout, and I consider the current BSA to be completely dishonest (by, for example, chartering BSA units that exclude atheists to public schools for decades) and hardly a "friend to all scouts" when they exclude scouts that other countries accept with no problems. However, if the BSA is going to insist that it's a private, discriminatory organization, I'm going to insist that my government not support it, as private organizations support themselves.

[evmori]

However, if the BSA is going to insist that it's a private, discriminatory organization, I'm going to insist that my government not support it, as private organizations support themselves.

 

Then ya better get on all the other private organization your government gives $$$ to. You want to be fair, don't you?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

As usual, Ed is quick to criticize while providing zero details. Name me a private organization that, say, insists it's entitled to rent its HQ for $1/year from the government, Ed. Or how about one that applies for HUD grants to use for programs that exclude atheists, in direct violation of those HUD grants.

[evmori]

Not what I asked Merlyn.

 

Churches are tax exempt hence your government supports them. I'd bet your government has United Way campaigns and I'd bet there are many organizations on the United Way list that are discriminatory. Hence, your government supports them.

 

You can chime back with "you don't have any facts" but that doesn't diminish my point.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Quite true Ed, you don't have any facts, and that doesn't lessen the force of your argument one whit.

[Pack212Scouter]

"(by, for example, chartering BSA units that exclude atheists to public schools for decades)"

 

I believe currently all charter organizations "in schools" are PTAs. PTAs are private organizations dedicated to their school in their community. Allowing a BSA unit access to property for meetings is no different than allowing GLT groups or ethnic groups to meet there.

 

"and hardly a "friend to all scouts" when they exclude scouts that other countries accept with no problems."

 

While Scouting is a worldwide movement, each country's Scouting organization sets it's own policies for the most part. Just because "they" do it doesn't mean BSA has to. And you can still be a friend without accepting them into your organization. I could even be your friend without accepting you into my family.

 

"However, if the BSA is going to insist that it's a private, discriminatory organization, I'm going to insist that my government not support it, as private organizations support themselves."

 

Interesting, in view of the things that our government DOES support. But moving on, I agree that BSA should support itself. Government wastes too much of our money on redistribution of wealth as it is.

 

In respose to your other arguments, I'll give just one glaring example. The National Endowment for the Arts. Nearly $100 million a year spent to fund various arts, based on "artistic merit" when many of them represent a political, religious or other view one way or another. Here is a prime example of government funding of religious, non-religious, and personal views that liberals are all for.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Pack212Scouter writes:

I believe currently all charter organizations "in schools" are PTAs.

 

Currently, yes. But before 2005, the BSA had no qualms issuing charters to public schools for packs & troops. I helped the ACLU of Illinois put a stop to that practice. In fact, public schools were the largest single chartering "group" for many years. Not the actions of an honest organization.

[Mr. Boyce]

Well, it's a shame to see anyone block scouting. I don't know what to say about this fellow Merlyn, unless he's just being perverse and playing devil's advocate. For that matter, I could assert that the Red Cross serves no public purpose. And I can feel sad that he helped deprive many, many youth from an important educational and developmental component. Extremism can be a toxic thing.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Mind explaining how official religious discrimination against atheists by public schools for the benefit of a private religious club is preferable? Or do atheists have no rights in your ideal world?

[evmori]

Mr Boyce,

 

You will get nowhere with Merlyn. His goal is to stop what he believes is intentional discrimination by the BSA yet he dos nothing to stop other types of the what he accuses the BSA of. It is called his agenda.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gonzo1]

Merlyn,

Self imposed communications ban is lifted - TEMPORARILY

 

The judicial branch changes laws althe the time. Try when Louisiana voters, by referendum, approve of lethal injection, the state suprem court overturned the law allowing child rapists to be free from voter approved execution citing that lethal injection is "cruel and unusual". Which is more cruel and unusual? lethal injection where the creepy child molester is put to sleep or raping innocent children and allowing the dirt bag to sponge off the tax payers for 15 or 20 years?

 

I'll agree that tax payer should not generally be spent for "only the boy scouts", but allowing the boy scouts to use a building already built (let's include lights and water). I think it's appropriate use to use Fort A.P. Hill an whatever soldiers can use the experience for training. That's right, soldiers actually train (become better, more efficient soldiers for the tax payers) by hosting the jamboree.

 

I'll also agree that atheists have rights, just like me, and the other posters here. I do not believe atheists get MORE rights. I would bet that if your atheists group wanted to use the school, or library or other assembly area, you would be allowed. Atheists pay taxes. Try it some time, go to the school or call them and ask if your local atheist group can meet on Tuesday night at 7:00 pm for an hour or so, see what would happen?

 

 

 

[scoutingagain]

Pack212,

 

Yes the Government may limit access to certain services but the point is to modify your statement at bit, " The list goes on and on, but the jist is that the GOVERNMENT is ALWAYS making a decision on which part of the population a program is aimed at. " It's the government's money and they get to make the call, not the enterprise that administers the program. If the BSA wants to accept government funding, expect to be told, who should be allowed to participate in BSA programs.

 

SA

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I can't count the number of times I've explained that CHARTERING a scout group is completely different from USING SCHOOL FACILITIES.

 

If a public school allows outside groups to use their facilities, EVERYONE gets to use them.

 

When a public school CHARTERS a BSA unit, it's unlawfully running a "no atheists allowed" private club.

[OldGreyEagle]

Merlyn, as discussed in another thread in an other section (I realize you usually stay in this section) just because a topic has been covered, new members to the site have as much a right to ask questions that others feel have been countlessly answered. I just consider it a cross we have to bear.

 

And , as discussed in another thread, apparently there is much opposition to the even hint of censorship and Merlyn is here representing an alternative view. I guess we could bar him, but what would that prove?

[Gonzo1]

OGE,

There's no need to remove Merlyn, I just don't understand why he keeps coming back for more.

 

Merlyn, why do you come back? Apparently, you must want to deparately join the BSA. Why not admit to a higher power and join. You might like it. Camping, fresh air, knot tying, etc.

 

I recently visited my dad in central Florida. He lives in one of those senior citizens only towns. A single person can live there if over 55, but one member of a couple can live there if over 30 and the other member is over 55. I'm 46. I won't win by trying to change the rules to allow me and my family to live there. It's against the rules. I suppose the SCLU could challenge it, but why bother, it's a place for older folks to live, it's the way they want it, or else THEY wouldn't have gone there.

 

If the BSA did accept federal funds, there would be so many strings attached, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

I volunteer at a local soup kitchen from time to time. No government money of any kind for anything is used. Only personal donations and church groups donate food and services. This allows the soup kitchen to do what they want, deliver a church message and feed, clothe and temporarily house the homeless.