The Guy who Killed the Red Berets still at it

[BadenP]

Kudu

Maybe your question ought to be how much more damage will Mazzuca do to the BSA as the new CSE. My guess is about the same amount as the new pope is doing to the Catholic Church. As far as WB is concerned I have taken both courses and aside from the friendships the rest was mostly a group of adult trainers who enjoyed treating other adults like children, each of them on their own personal power trips. I have most of Powell's and Hillcourt's books and have gotten much more out of them than any council training. Still I never expected too much going to Woodbadge and I was not disappointed either time, now I have my beads and books and the classes are a distant memory.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Kahuna]

"I never realized that when Kudu talks disparagingly about Wood Badgers and the Wood Badge Culture he was including all the Wood Badge Curriculums ever since 1972"

 

Well, I had no trouble understanding that. I would guess anyone who went to WB before 1972 would agree with Kudu. You could see an immediate difference in the quality of WB people after they changed the course. It was even commented on by people who had not been to WB.

[OldGreyEagle]

Comming from an area where I have been told more than one time that since I took the 21rst Century WoodBadge, I could in no way be at all as good as those who took the previous version, it was my impression that was what Kudu was talking about. As I aged out in 1971 and was an ASM with the troop for a few years before I drifted away from scouting, I have never known a pre-1972 Wood Badge graduate.

 

So the BSA has been bereft of quality leaders for over 35 years, who knew?

 

Wow, all I can say is Wow(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Narraticong]

Of course, wed have not been bereft of quality leaders for 35 years. But...we have sent leaders to training which totally misses the point of Scouting. Less emphasis on learning through the Patrol Method (Hillcourt) and more on MBA style "management".

 

Anyone who has been in the workforce will tell you there is a great difference between a "Leader" and a "manager". I am afraid the training courses of the past 35 years have steered both Scouts and Scouters in the direction of being "managers".

 

But there are some of us who grew up with Scoutmasters who were old style Woodbadgers and understood the Patrol Method. Our Boys Life had articles by Green Bar Bill. And yes, many of us are resentful of what the changes have done to the program.

[prairie]

Please forgive this minor hy-jack, where would I find the pre-72 Woodbadge course materails? I don't need to own a set just be able to read them.

As far as the beret, mom bought me one and I thougt it was neat, till I saw a photo of me wearing it, then nothing I could do made to look okay in the mirror. Now I wear hats that block the sun from my eyes and keeps it off my nose, ears and neck. I have a plastic pith helmet with the sides highly ventilated that works to keep both the sun and rain off my head but it would need some mods for scout use. When worn the beret offered no more utility than the overseas/garrison/folding cap while unable to be put in your pocket, the green ball cap beats them both but almost nobody wore them in the early to mid 1970s that I remember cept some adults, fact I didn't even know it was an option.

To the beret lovers out there I'm sorry you felt your hat was missapproated but I'm not troubled that it's use has faded away.

[prairie]

Time for my health dose of crow, I do have my old beret, even has my name scrawled inside, one of my sisters musta taken the patch off though. Need to find another patch and get it sewn on, another item in my uniform colection.

Can't wear it if I wanted to, seems my skull is bigger now.

[John-in-KC]

Back in 1968-9-70...

 

It was OK to dig fire trenches (we did it most every campout)

 

It was OK to make browse beds by cutting branches and saplings.

 

Trapping a couple rabbits for your Patrol's supper was OK.

 

It was OK to climb up a signal tower without head protection.

 

Morse Code was a fast means of communicating messages great distances.

 

A Scoutmaster could address a miscreant Scout starting with "YOU WORTHLESS SON OF A #####" all by yourself.

 

All of those statements are no longer true

The first three are outside Leave No Trace; want a lawsuit, have a kid fall without a safety line and head protection in place to a signal tower; a 56KB modem is orders of magnitude faster than Morse; and Heaven Help You if you cuss at a Scout even under two deep leadership.

 

Yes, leadership principles are immutable.

 

The training techniques to teach leadership principles can and have changed.

 

The hard skills of the outdoors, used as a training vehicle, can and have changed. (As a concession to Stosh, mastering Morse is still fun, and still has some use in the US within the Military Affiliate Radio System) Whether each of us consider the skills changed for better or worse can be debated until the cows come home, but change they have.

 

My point? Look at each and every product critically. They are, as Beavah often says, program tools, not the Holy Gospel (or the Holy Grail). Use to your units' best advantage. If something does not fit your circumstances, evaluate it, and change within the corners of LNT, the Oath, and the Law.

 

Is that really that impossible to do?(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[sherminator505]

Red berets died for the same reason that the green folding cap did. They simply fell out of style, as have a number of uniform options that seemed like good ideas in their own time. Time will tell if the Centennial shirts catch on or fall by the wayside, but I just have the feeling that the latter will happen. Or perhaps it's just wishful thinking...