Pagan Scouts

[fgoodwin]

Pagan Scouts

 

http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/local&id=6124046

 

5/6/2008 Fresno, CA (KFSN) -- A scouting organization founded by Pagans is opening a chapter in the Central Valley.

 

The local troop leader of Spiral Scouts says it's dedicated to reverence for nature and religious tolerance. Beckie Tetrault says for her son and daughter it's an alternative to Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. She says, "Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts tend to separate boys and girls and I wanted them to be able to scout together."

 

The other issue for Tetrault is religion. While Girl Scouts have no religious affiliations, Boy Scout troops are usually sponsored by churches, and belief in God is a requirement for membership. "There's not really an issue with Boy Scouts, it's just that they are more Christian centered. Whereas Spiral Scouts is a more earth based scouting experience." Tetrault explains.

 

The National Spiral Scouting organization was started by Wiccans, who believe in an Earth God and Goddess, and practice witchcraft. But Spiral Scouts is open to all faiths. That's one reason Angela Rahn says she wants her kids in Spiral Scouts. "I would just like to have my children involved with other children who are being raised the way my children are, which is being open to all religions even ones that are outside of the Christian faith."

 

Spiral Scouts will do things like work on merit badges, do crafts projects and go camping.

 

Tetrault says offering a pagan appreciation of nature, is not teaching religion. "This is not Pagan Sunday School or anything like that, we just tend to be more focused on earth centered belief systems." She adds, it's "More like, looking at, taking care of mother earth, and how our actions affect mother earth, and how we can do things to improve the situation for all people and all animals."

 

The Fresno based Spiral Scouts troop meets at the Fresno Discovery Center on Saturdays.

[fgoodwin]

I posted this article to illustrate an example of a group that chose to form their own Scouting organization, rather than trying to sue BSA to bend to its will.

 

American Girls is another example of an organization formed as an alternative to Girl Scouts, and did not try to reform Girl Scouts into their own image.

 

One wonders why other critics of BSA can't do the same . . .

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

They are, Fred; Camp Quest and Youthscouts are more examples.

 

I'm more concerned with removing illegal government support of the BSA's discrimination, such as when Blattman Elementary chartered your cub scout pack, and you stated that atheists could not join your pack chartered by a public school. The LA Learning for Life situation is an example of municipalities distancing themselves even further from the BSA.

[Trevorum]

It would be interesting to read some of their literature. From what I can tell, I'd consider Spiral Scouts to be under the Baden Powell umbrella of Greater Scouting.

[DanKroh]

I think there are two distinct camps for "critics" of the BSA. One group that wants the BSA to change their membership policies. The other group accepts the membership policies but wants the BSA to abide by the laws governing them as a "private religious organization". There may, of course, be overlap between the two groups.

 

While I can understand the desire to have the former go off and start other groups instead, for who belong to the latter group, no number of alternative groups is going to change the fact that government support (in any form) of a private, discriminating religious group is still illegal, as determined by the courts of this land.

 

That said, while I understand the desire to have critics go form their own groups, they are still not going to be on a level playing field as long as the BSA receives preferential treatment by public and private organizations because of the "name recognition" factor, not to even begin to mention the whole Congressional charter thing, which has allowed the BSA to try to sue a bunch of budding alternative groups out of existence.

 

So, I guess part of my answer to that question would be, well, if you want critics to create alternative programs instead of trying to bend the BSA to their will, how about if the BSA lets them create their alternative programs without the legal hassles?

[OldGreyEagle]

http://www.spiralscouts.org/

 

 

I can just imagine the shock of all the Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish et al scouts who wear their religious recognistions proudly on thier uniforms finding out that the BSA is a Christian organization

[FScouter]

"The other group accepts the membership policies but wants the BSA to abide by the laws governing them as a 'private religious organization'. "

 

What are some of the laws that BSA does not abide by?

[John-in-KC]

OGE: I absolutely agree with you.

 

BTW, since when is monotheism the sole basis of belief system eligible for the DRP? I see no reason why a boy raised within a Wiccan family cannot be a Boy Scout.

 

All I ask is that his family be the leading agent of his religious upbringing... as indeed was my duty with my own EagleSon

[Eamonn]

We have a Lad in the Ship who nearly quit Scouting because a NYLT SM made a statement that Scouts have to be Christian and belong to a recognized religion!!

Him and I had a chat and for a little while he has been looking into the Wiccans.

He has said that he does believe that there is a "Higher Power". He is just turned off by the traditional organized religions.

It might be just something he is going through.

But for now everyone seems happy.

We ran into a problem a couple of years back when our then Boatswain insisted that everyone attend the Sea Scout Scouts Own at a Winter Training weekend. A couple of the Scouts were very vocal about this being wrong.

Ea.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

FScouter writes:

What are some of the laws that BSA does not abide by?

 

Just recently, I inquired into a HUD Community Development Block Grant from Colorado Springs that was earmarked for the Pike's Peak council to run a Scoutreach program.

 

Their Scoutreach program does not admit atheists; I asked Wendy Shaw at the PP council specifically if atheists would be able to join the Scoutreach program that was to be paid for with the CDB grant, and she said no.

 

This violates 42 USC 5309, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion for HUD grants.

 

A similar situation for BSA units that used to be chartered to public schools; in Minnesota, for example, that's in violation of statutes 363A.13 & 363A.14, ,which prohibits public schools from discriminating on the basis of religion, and prohibits attempting to induce them to do so. By chartering BSA units that exclude atheists, the BSA is attempting to induce public schools to discriminate against atheists. I've even talked to David Park in the BSA legal department in Irving, TX, and he stated that atheists could not join BSA units chartered to public schools.

 

It was also illegal for the Atlanta area council to inflate their membership roles to get a larger United Way allocation.

 

John-in-KC writes:

BTW, since when is monotheism the sole basis of belief system eligible for the DRP?

 

That would appear to be up to the whims of whoever in the BSA has authority to state whether polytheists can or can't be members of the BSA. A straight reading of the DRP would appear to require monotheism, plus other attributes that could exclude e.g. some Deists. But as long as unknown BSA execs don't create secret, unannounced membership criteria via internal memos like they did for gays, you're probably OK. But you can never be sure.

[FScouter]

I was really looking for some ongoing and current examples of BSA not abiding by the law that would support the "distinct camp" of BSA critics mentioned by Dan Kroh. If there are none, that's fine. The Pikes Peak thing, while current, appears to be flub by one council. However, if there is knowledge of a widespread practice supported or known by the national council to submit CDBG applications with false information it should be brought out in the open.

 

BSA has been rechartering school based units for some time now; I don't know if there are any left.

 

The Atlanta membership problem has been resolved, no? Are other councils presenting fake numbers to United Way?

 

I'm sure there will always be a "camp" that opposes BSA on the principal of membership policies and that is fine. I do take issue though with a characterization that BSA does not abide with laws.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I've found a fair number of HUD grants like the PP council grant over the , they aren't an isolated case, and the BSA didn't *stop* issuing charters to government entities until the ACLU threatened to sue. Even so, there are still some around, like venture crew chartered by the Maryland DNR:

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/dnrnews/pressrelease2008/041008.html

Crew 202 is chartered to "Md Dept of Natural Resources"

 

I don't consider the BSA to be an honest organization.

[Gold Winger]

You must be a really, really sad and tormented person to spend your life doing your best to disrupt the lives of others and telling yourself that you are serving the greater good. Much like the traffic cop who sits on the side of the deserted highway in the middle of the night, waiting for the speeder doing 5 mph over the limit which there is a stranded motorist a half mile that could use his help.

 

Sad, very sad.

[GernBlansten]

Everyone needs a hobby.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Gold Winger, again, do you have anything to add pertaining to the topic, or is your whole existence in this forum only to make personal remarks directed at me? I'm sorry if my efforts to keep the BSA from REPEATEDLY AND DELIBERATELY BREAKING THE LAW somehow annoys you; I know how some people think they ought to be above the law.