LA Fire Dept. closer to dropping Learning for Life

[GernBlansten]

Gonzo, I'm not being clear.

 

Let's say the BSA was a religious organization as it claims. It has religious requirements not only for joining, but strong religious elements in its programing. It requires religious activities to verify compliance and competency in a members religiosity. Non religious folk will quickly be weeded out.

Likewise, it claimed it was a heterosexual organization that required strong heterosexual elements in its programming. It required heterosexual activities to verify compliance and competency in a members heterosexuality.

If that were the case, then I would agree that BSA has right and obligation to restrict membership to those who are not eligible to partake in their programming. Non-heterosexual folk will quickly be identified and weeded out.

However, BSA does not have those elements in its program, so enforcing a requirement for membership that has no relevance to the program is not only silly, but self defeating.

 

Likewise, in your analogy of the Tall Dancers Club, if they had a requirement that all members like pistachio ice cream, it would be silly and self defeating because it has no bearing on the program they offer.

 

[Gonzo1]

Gern,

Amusing, but I disagree.

I think it's important (without going on witch hunts) to maintain a standard - otherwise, there isn't a standard, just words on paper.

 

we disagree.

Gonzo

 

[GernBlansten]

So the standards for LFL are just fine, but applied to BSA they are woefully insufficient. Even though those standards have no applicability in the BSA program.

[Gonzo1]

Gern,

That's right, LFL has a different set of rule than BSA eventhough BSA owns LFL.

 

Look at it this way: the NFL is a football league. The NFL also owns the Arean Football League. There are different rules for both eventhough they are both owned by the NFL.

 

Different program, different rules.

 

Done.

[evmori]

I would bet, GW, Merlyn owns stuff made in China he just doesn't realize it!

[CalicoPenn]

Can anyone point to any LFL documents that specifically relate to Police and Fire Department cadet programs regarding training, etc.? I've yet to see a BSA/LFL "curriculum" for such a thing. The argument that the fire department won't be able to use LFL materials is a strawman argument as there is no LFL materials relating specifically to police and fire cadet programs that aren't already available to police and fire departments through other sources - like their own professional associations.

 

Let's face reality here - the kids won't be losers in this because LA will still continue the program, just without the LFL label, the city won't lose anything because the benefits they get from LFL is going to be pretty minimal. The only folks losing out is LFL (and the BSA)as they lose the revenue those 175 or so cadets in the program, and the adult leader, are no longer paying to LFL.

 

Calico

[Gold Winger]

In the end, the program will peter out and die. LA will realize that they are no longer protected by LFL insurance so that will restrict the activities that the Explorers can do. Then they'll have to come up with their own locally grown handbooks, manuals, flip charts, etc.. So the task of developing them will be given to the overworked advisors.

 

I don't know about LAFD but I know that the advisors for my Explorer Post were paid for their time by out sponsor. So the time needed to develop new materials will probably bust the budget for the program. So instead of nice handbooks, they'll have a few photocopied sheets and most material will be delivered orally on an ad hoc basis.

 

The you will say, "This is lame. All we get to do is sit around and TALK about what it is like to fight fires." No ride alongs. No training. No helping out with clean up or accidents. "We quit!"

 

The program collapses and Meryln and his cohorts will have accomplished their goal and the goal of Satan by putting the youth back out on the street where they'll get into trouble and start doing drugs.

[evmori]

Let's face reality here - the kids won't be losers in this because LA will still continue the program, just without the LFL label, the city won't lose anything because the benefits they get from LFL is going to be pretty minimal. The only folks losing out is LFL (and the BSA)as they lose the revenue those 175 or so cadets in the program, and the adult leader, are no longer paying to LFL.

 

Sounds like a campaign promise. Considering the speed that governments operate, they might replace the program in 2-5 years at an exorbitant cost to the tax payers! What's it cost to the tax payers now? $0. The losers will be the kids! And there is a good chance the program never gets started!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[CalicoPenn]

The curriculum already exists - and it is not LFL specific - it is fire and police cadet curriculum developed by police and fire department unions and professional organizations. Again - the reality is that there is little benefit to be had for a police and fire cadet program to be part of LFL. The police and fire cadet programs in our council that are also part of LFL are covered by municipal insurance (there is no way in heck the municipal insurers around here will allow for ride alongs and fire training under just the LFL insurance).

 

The sponsors paying for the program are the municipalities - why would they stop paying for the program once it's no longer under the LFL lable?

 

What Exploring, and later LFL, did for police and fire cadet programs was to provide opportunities for police and fire posts to interract with other police and fire posts in the area, state and nation. That's the only real benefit these programs every got from Scouting. A large city fire department cadet program like LA's can put together competitions amongst their own cadets, by stationhouse - and will do just fine.

 

Calico

[emb021]

All the info on Fire Exploring is here: http://www.learning-for-life.org/exploring/fire/index.html

 

I believe there is a national conference for Fire Explorers, but not sure how often (2-3 years in between) or when the next one will be.

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Still looks like a lot for LAFD to do on their own. Training, insurance, advertising. . .

 

Look at how hard it is to get a youth baseball league going. We need rules. . . which rules Federation, OBR, LL . . can't use LL because we're not part of LL. Umpires? How much? Training? Game fields. Practice fields. Scheduling. Coaches. Eligibility. And the beat goes on. This isn't Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland although St. Peter might like the Judy Garland part.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

There's also the Fire Chiefs program which gives $500 scholarships. Kiss them goodbye, the kids will be out of the program. In a perfect world, LAFD should see how many of those were won on average, and then budget to make whole.

 

Like I said, it's LAFD's loss, not BSAs.