Liability ? Oh Deer!

[Eamonn]

I get to work very early in the day.Normally by about 0430.

I really enjoy My time in the early morning and seem to get a lot more done without too many distractions.

Of course my drive to work is not complicated by any sort of traffic or congestion at that time of the day.

As a rule I'm in my own little world, driving along with the car stereo, which at times I'll admit I play maybe a little bit to loud.

Once I turn off the road and enter the grounds of the State Correctional facility, I very often have to smile. The grounds are very well kept, inmates are employed to look after them.

I see the jail, the fence and miles and miles of razor wire. At first this used to in some way scare me, but I have got used to it and in many ways am thankful for it being there.

I'm not smiling at the fence or the wire, but at the deer on my side of the fence as I drive in.

Of course there is no hunting near the jail and it's like these deer seem to know this. They just spend their time doing whatever it is deer do to pass the time.

Many of the people I work with do hunt and have said how much they would like to harvest these animals.

The other morning I was driving in on the state owned drive way. I was for once following the 15 MPH speed limit and out of no where a deer jumped out in front of me.

I put the brakes on and managed to stop before any harm was done to me, my car or the deer.

This became my "Story" of the day.

I'm not sure how we got on to the subject of liability. But we did.

Someone said that if I'd been hurt I wouldn't be covered by Workman's compensation or the Heart and Lung compensation that I really don't understand!! As I wasn't really at work!

Someone said that as the State is aware that the Deer are there and do pose a danger I could if anything happened sue the State.

Someone else said that my car insurance carrier would do what they thought best.

Of course as nothing happened!! This was all just idle chatter (One reason to get to work early!!)

I do enjoy seeing the deer, they do brighten up my morning. I'd hate to see them removed because someone, somewhere decided that them being there was some kind of a liability issue.

Of course if something had happened that had left me permanently disabled? I might have a different take on all of this.

I now drive up to the jail with my high beams on!!

Liability is something that is always going to be out there!!

I do think we need to use common sense to make things as safe and reduce as much risk as we can.

But when we allow it to become the ruling factor of everything we do or don't do?

I think we will have gone too far.

(Just my 2 cents)

Eamonn

PS I think maybe the Deer liked the CD I was playing - 40 Licks by the Rolling Stones.

 

[evmori]

I thought you would have been listening to

 

"As the Deer"

 

LOL!

[vol_scouter]

I tend to agree. As a society we seem to wish there to be no risk in any activity. This attitude takes freedoms away and can decrease our enjoyment of life. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness can only be accomplished by allowing as much freedom as possible to each individual. All the rules that we impose on another in the name of safety can destroy those freedoms. I am not against all rules/laws but we should not issue new restrictions based on low incidence events. A child recently slipped to her death at the Grand Canyon - should we build a fence (maybe with the razor wire to prevent people from climbing over) based on that event? Millions visit the canyon each year so that the incidence is low. So even though the result of a mishap is extreme, the likelihood is low. If it were found that almost all such incidences happened at the same place, address that one place.

 

As a society we need to learn from our forefathers that we are responsible for ourselves and our families. We should be responsible for their safety in most situations and not look to governments to legislate all safety. Obviously, the government should work to ensure safety of things that individuals have little control such as planes (how could I determine if a plane is maintained) but everyday issues like using a step ladder correctly should be up to me.

 

We are doing the same thing in scouting by making new rules to try to cover all situations. In the end, only planning, common sense, experience, and wisdom will make scouting safer.

[packsaddle]

Deer are rats with antlers. I take some satisfaction that the rapid expansion of the coyote population in this area is partly at the expense of the deer herd.

 

The auto insurance company will do whatever they are legally required to do, perhaps only if you discover that legal requirement for yourself.

But if you do hit a deer, I hope it is a pregnant doe. Every little bit helps.

[Bob White]

As children we are taught that actions have either rewards or consequences. They choices we make can cause pleasure or bring punishment. Most children catch onm to this pretty quickly. They know that if they make bad choices they will be punished or get hurt. Usually the punishment is short lived ann inconsequential. Time ou, stand in a corner, perhaps a spanking. Children understand it and learn from it. Some are able to transfer the reward and consequence theory into adult hood. But not all. Many adults feel that having to follow rules and be responsibly for their choices is fine for children, but that as adults they have risen beyond that. After all you cannot make an adult stand in the corner or give them time out.

 

So long ago the community of man determined that when and adult is responsible for damage or injury due to the choice she or she made that the community will punish them for being responsible (liable) for the damage done. Lawyers did not create liability. Adults making bad choices created liability.

 

Many of the policies of scouting exist to help adults from making bad choices that would cost the voluteer, or the charter organization or the BSA large amounts of money. Following the rules protects everyone, even the adult who without the rule could have made a very bad choice.

 

As for the deer, had he hit Eamonn who would be liable? The State? Can you prove the State was negligent in controlling the behavior of a free roaming animal? The Deer? Good luck with that. Eamonn? he can't very well chrrge himself for something he didn't choose to do.

 

So what role would liability have played in this chapter of his life? None. So perhaps worrying about liability being a ruling factor in his life is not the concern he thought it was.

[evmori]

Maybe we should give adults time outs or make them sit in the corner!

[GernBlansten]

You strike a topic that is very deer to me.

I've clipped four of them in the past 5 years. One just last month. Pack, I'm doing my part to thin the herd.

 

I live in a rural area and commute daily into a metro area. I have herds of the big rats everywhere. On my driveway, in the parkway, down the highway. They spring from the bushes, the hills and dales. I've even had one run all the way across an open field to run into the side of my slow moving truck. You will know when I quit posting to this forum if I have an incident on my motorcycle.

 

So I can say with great authority, there is no liability assigned to the deer. Everything falls onto you. If you don't have comprehensive insurance, you aren't covered and will not be able to recover from the deer's family or the state.

 

Now if its a horse or cow, the owner has the liability. At least in my state.

 

[eisely]

One of the scariest driving experiences I ever experienced involved a pair of deer in Pennsylvania many years ago. I was heading West on I-80 at dusk in a Volkswagen beatle when two deer crossed the highway. One right in front of me and one behind. It happened so fast I had no time to react. At my speed in that car, if I had hit either one of these creatures, I would not be writing this post today.

 

Western mule deer infest the hills where I live here in California. Passed a dead one by the road commuting to work the other day. Fortunately vehicle accidents are few. Mostly they just devastate your expensive landscaping.

[FScouter]

Infested? That's what we get for "managing" the wolf and mountain lion.

[Gold Winger]

Leave it to B** W**** to turn a lighthearted discussion about deer and liability into a treatise on responsibility.

 

Here's a buck, go buy a sense of humor.

[GernBlansten]

One of those encounters with those vermin cost me a Mazda Miata. Took out its feet doing about 65. Head went into the windshield on the passenger side, got cut in two as the rest went over the top and sprayed the trunk with a pink mist. Had it hit the drivers side, I wouldn't have fathered a scout. I hate venison.

Insurance paid to repair the car, but still found glass pieces 3 years later when I sold it. I called that car DeerSlayer.

[Gold Winger]

Deer totalled my car as well. I'm not too fond of them either.

[Bob White]

A "lighthearted discussion on liability"? That would be like saying you had an interesting chat with an actuary wouldn't it?

 

Taking a post on liability and talking aboout responsibility is not a topic change. Liability is a synonym for responsibility according to Roget. And legal liability ia all about responsibility, more accurately it is about irresponsibility. If you don't act irresponsibly then you have no fear of liability. You still understand it and respect it, but if you make good decisions you do not fear it. Just as you learned as child that consequences come with poor choices, as an adult liability comes from poor choices.

 

In Eamonn's story there was no liability so why be concerned about it being a ruling factor in your life? It certainly did not rule Eamonn, the deer, or his employer did it?

[Gold Winger]

Nah . . .it would be like shooing ducks in a barrel.

[OldGreyEagle]

See, when the car I was driving hit and killed a deer outside of Corpus Christi, I immediately started calling the vehicle Natty Bumpo. so Gern we are kindred spirits...