US Court upholds 10 Commandments on public land

[evmori]

Why can't a teacher ask a student if they are saved or are they going to hell? How does that violate the 1st Amendment?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's religious proselytizing Ed.

[GernBlansten]

Ed, do you see a problem with a teacher asking, "Tommy, would you please stand and tell the class what faith you are?" Is that their 1st Amendment right?

[evmori]

I guess it would depend on the context of the question, Gern. But actually, no I don't. What's the difference in asking that question or asking "Tell the class what nationality your are, Billy."?

[scoutingagain]

Ed, and you don't see the problem with that question either?

 

SA

 

 

[evmori]

No I don't see the problem with either question. Is there a problem with either question?

[TheScout]

Many interesting comments.

 

OGE: Constitutional amendment is tempting. However, it shouldn't be needed. We have had prayers in schools throughout our whole history until 1962. Why should we need an amendment to authorize it? An amendment should be required to ban it. Accepting the negative on school prayer (among other issues) concedes to the SCOTUS the ultimate right to decide on constitutionality).

 

Merlyn, I just found the Gallup poll from that forum. I do not participate. Glad you find their commentary interesting.

 

I also do not understand why it is wrong to ask a student his/her nationality?

 

I also don't see why Merlyn is so willing to disregard a public referendum on the issue?

 

Or the 10th Amendment for that matter, apparently one can use the 1st Amendment to disregard the first? I guess so in his fantasy world.

 

So Merlyn, in your world what does the 10th Amendment mean? If anything? LOL Cause I know you hate it.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

TheScout, you're the one living in a fantasy world. In the real world, the supreme court really has the authority to declare laws unconstitutional, and official school prayers really have been unconstitutional for decades. And mere legislation can't remove or infringe on citizens' rights. But we've been through this before.

 

So Merlyn, in your world what does the 10th Amendment mean? If anything? LOL Cause I know you hate it.

 

LOL 1 d0n7, d00d!!1!!1!one!! Bu7 17 122en7 @ b1@nk ch3ck 4 s7@73 p0wr, e17h3r.

[TheScout]

Merlyn, please supply the clause which gives the SCOTUS the exclusive right to interpret the federal constitution.

 

Recall, President Jefferson said,

 

"[T]he opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their, own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch." -Thomas Jefferson

 

Was he wrong?

 

Also, I did not understand your opinion on the 10th Amendment? Does it exist? What does it mean in your opinion? I still know you hate that one .

 

Its too bad. Its probably my favorie amendment. But apparently you do not give a damn about any other than the 1st.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Merlyn, please supply the clause which gives the SCOTUS the exclusive right to interpret the federal constitution.

 

There isn't one, because the constitution doesn't contain the word "interpret." Using your logic then, NOBODY has the power (not the right, the power) to interpret the constitution.

 

Was he [Jefferson] wrong?

 

His opinion didn't prevail; I normally wouldn't describe that as "wrong" but more as "his side lost."

 

Also, I did not understand your opinion on the 10th Amendment? Does it exist?

 

Of course. Is official school prayer unconstitutional today?

 

What does it mean in your opinion?

 

Pretty much what it says; powers that are not delegated to the federal government by the constitution are either held by the states (unless the constitution also prohibits states from the power under consideration) or the people.

[OldGreyEagle]

I would suggest the Public School Prayer Amendment in the same way the founding fathers added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. Many people didnt think they were necessary but others wanted to be explicit in what was to be allowed and not allowed. Why do we need one? So its clear its constitutional

[TheScout]

Well Merlyn since you can't tell us where the SCOTUS gets the exclusive right to interpret (or whatever phrase you want to use) the federal Constitution, where does it come from? Clearly there must be some basis.

 

I do not understand your interpretation of the 10th Amendment. It appears to give the states great powers, but you wish to curtail them. The 1st Amendment is very vague. What exactly is the "establishment of religion? The 10th is not. All powers not delegated to the federal government are left to the states. Why not just defer to the states on school prayer.

 

This comes down to you holding the 1st Amendment above every other clause of the Constitution.

 

OGE,

 

But this would be the same problem as the Prohibition amendment, using constitutional amendments to subsitute for ordinary legistlation is not an answer and fill the constitution with many additions. Plus school prayer, something so ingrained in the history and fabric of the country should not have to go through the rigorous amendment process for it again to be recognized as constitutional.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

where does it come from?

 

Marbury v. Madison.

 

I do not understand your interpretation of the 10th Amendment. It appears to give the states great powers, but you wish to curtail them.

 

Which powers would that be, exactly? It doesn't list any. You seem to be against the supreme court having unlisted powers, but eager for states to have unlisted powers. Why are you in favor of one but not the other?

 

The 1st Amendment is very vague.

 

It's way clearer than the 10th, at least in terms of what it's actually talking about.

 

What exactly is the "establishment of religion?"

 

That's why the constitution needs to be interpreted.

 

The 10th is not. All powers not delegated to the federal government are left to the states.

 

Wrong. It does NOT say that, it says "are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Why are you ignoring "the people"?

 

Why not just defer to the states on school prayer.

 

Because the 10th says that states do NOT have powers that the US constitution prohibits to them, and the 14th amendment prohibits states from infringing on 1st amendment rights of the people.

 

This comes down to you holding the 1st Amendment above every other clause of the Constitution.

 

No, this comes from the 14th amendment applying the 1st amendment to the states. Before that, states could have official state religions.

[evmori]

Allowing prayer in public schools doesn't establish a religion.

[TheScout]

So Marbury v. Madison is the best you can come up with to the idea that the SCOTUS has the exclusive right to interpret the federal constitution. No clause in the constitution itself?

 

Its nice that the SCOTUS can give itself such powers in one of its own written opinions. LOL.

 

"Which powers would that be, exactly? It doesn't list any. You seem to be against the supreme court having unlisted powers, but eager for states to have unlisted powers. Why are you in favor of one but not the other?"

 

Because the whole purpose of the 10th Amendment is to give the States (or the people) the unlisted powers! Duh. No such device exists for the SCOTUS. It lives on usurptation . . .

 

You also write "Because the 10th says that states do NOT have powers that the US constitution prohibits to them, and the 14th amendment prohibits states from infringing on 1st amendment rights of the people." Those are all more questionable decisions made by the SCOTUS.

 

Again this comes down to you holding the 1st Amendment above every other part of the federal Constitution and using the SCOTUS to ram your views down the throats of the American people.

 

In your little world we should apparently just stop holding elections and let the SCOTUS make all the decisions. Since it is the ultimate arbiter of anything anyway under your perverted theories.

 

No, this comes from the 14th amendment applying the 1st amendment to the states. Before that, states could have official state religions.