BSA councils attempt to defraud public for funds

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

 

Two Boy Scout councils have recently attempted to receive HUD Community Development Block Grants to finance some of their programs that exclude atheists. All HUD CDB grants require nondiscrimination on the basis of religion, yet BSA officials signed nondiscrimination agreements anyway.

 

Here's one, from the city of Santa Maria, California. Their council minutes have this:

http://ci.santa-maria.ca.us/minutes/CityCouncil-20070717rm.pdf

...

Resolution No. 2007-106 was adopted approving the allocation of CDBG Program

Income in the amount of $8,864 as follows: $2,855 to the Boy Scouts, $2,854 to the

Boys and Girls Club, and $2,855 to the Campfire Girls,

...

 

I emailed the city council, asking what the Boy Scouts proposed to do with the money, as the council minutes didn't say. Here's what I got from the Community Programs Manager:

...

the Boy Scouts of America (Los Padres Council) received a 2007 CDBG allocation in the amount of $2,955 from the City to conduct a soccer clinic as part of their Soccer & Scouting Program in Santa Maria. We have received no complaints or reports that this agency has discriminated or denied services to anyone based on race, color, national origin, sex, religion, age or handicap.

...

 

I pointed out that the official Soccer & Scouting says that normal BSA youth membership forms are used for the program (see www.soccerandscouting.org/resources/pdf/13-281.pdf ), and that these forms have the usual Declaration of Religious Principle to sign as part of membership, and that no HUD financed program can require recipients to sign a religious declaration to participate, as that's religious discrimination in violation of HUD requirements for CDB grants. I also asked for contact information at the Los Padres council so I could ask if their Soccer & Scouting program admitted atheists.

 

The next email from the Santa Maria city manager said that the Los Padres council cancelled their contract agreement.

 

 

The Pike's Peak council is slated to receive a $5,000 CDB grant from Colorado Springs (the council has received a similar amount in past years):

http://www.springsgov.com/units/budget/2008/2008PAppendixC.pdf

...

Boy Scouts of America - Scoutreach 4,000 5,000 CDBG [note: $4000 grant in 2007, $5000 proposed in 2008)

...

Boy Scouts of America, Scoutreach This program provides outreach to ethnic minorities that have been traditionally

underserved, youth from single-parent families, youth in danger of dropping out of school or already expelled, and youth

involved in the juvenile diversion program. Scoutreach is a vehicle for the local Pikes Peak Council to establish packs,

troops and crews and attract boys, young men, and women who would otherwise not be able to gain the benefits of scouting

membership.

...

 

The city manager said they were assured by the Pike's Peak council that "participation is open to all boys", and that this was what the council was told back in 2005 when I inquired back then about a CDB grant.

 

Well, I actually called the Pike's Peak council and asked the person in charge of the Scoutreach program if atheists could participate, and, of course, I was told no, they couldn't. Again, in direct violation of HUD CDB grant requirements.

 

The city council has been talking with their attorneys about freezing the funds, and I'll be receiving a copy of the non-discrimination clause that the BSA council sent to the city.

 

This one hasn't been settled yet, but I think it's clear that both councils attempted to get HUD grants under deliberately false pretenses.

[evmori]

So now who is going to conduct the soccer clinic?

 

Nowhere does it state that the participants of clinic must become BSA members to participate. It seems all boys & girls were welcome to participate in the clinic.

 

Was this deliberate fraud on the part of the BSA? No. It seems the BSA just wanted to help out kids & now they can't.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, the national BSA says Soccer & Scouting uses the same membership forms, which includes the DRP. When I asked the city manager who I could contact at the Los Padres council about the program (since I know during the pilot program that different councils handled S&S differently, so it was possible that their S&S program would allow atheists), the next email I got was that the Los Padres council cancelled their contract.

 

So as soon as the question of atheists was raised, the council cancelled the program. The BSA can still run a Soccer & Scouting program, they just can't DEFRAUD THE PUBLIC and use a HUD grant that REQUIRES NON-DISCRIMINATION to do so. Understand that part yet, Ed? The money the Los Padres council wanted to use requires that they agree to not discriminate on the basis of religion. The council was willing to lie and get that money.

[Hunt]

Ed asks a good question, which you didn't answer, Merlyn. Was the soccer clinic open to all kids? Because if it was, I'm not exactly sure what your objection is. Are you saying that no membership-restricted group should receive a grant to fund a nonrestricted activity?

 

Plus, I have to add that if the soccer clinic was in fact open to all kids, to accuse the council of trying to defraud the public is a lie.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I just said, when I asked the city council who I could talk to on the Los Padres council to ask whether atheists could join Soccer & Scouting, the next email I got from the city manager said the Los Padres council cancelled their contract. So as soon as I started asking around, the Los Padres council dropped it like a hot potato(e).

 

I think a lot of people here realize that the Soccer & Scouting program is just an attempt by the BSA to inflate Cub Scout membership.

 

And if the S&S program was going to be open to all, why did the council cancel the contract? If I had asked if it was open to Jews, would the council cancel the program, or just answer "yes"? They bailed because they were caught.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[GernBlansten]

I guess it comes down to whether you had to become a member to participate in the clinic. Unclear, but if when the question was raised and the contract was retracted, one could assume that membership was indeed required.

[evmori]

I just noticed this is 7 months old! Did you just complain about this now Merlyn?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It was voted into next years' budget 7 months ago, Ed. Yes, I only discovered it in January. The council cancelled the contract before any funds were distributed.

[evmori]

So do you have to be a member to be a participant in the clinic or not? That's the key not the membership requirements of the BSA. And it seems this question is still unanswered.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah]

How sad.

 

Remind me to write my congressman and senators to vote additional cuts to HUD as part of the budget negotiations this year. Perhaps the tax dollars saved will allow local private donors to fund youth programs for underserved, at-risk, minority kids.

 

Just how many Latino immigrant children living in HUD housing do you really suppose are committed atheists, Merlyn? I bet you would be hard-pressed to find a single one. Atheism is a luxury of the idle rich.

 

So the net effect of your zeal is to deny needed public service to families of faith, who were perfectly comfortable with the BSA. And to annoy voters who may in turn stop giving to the government, so that they can manage their own allocations to charity.

 

If community polarization and animosity is your goal, yeh might be doing a good job. If service to the community and to children is your goal, I reckon yeh should be ashamed.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah, if there aren't any committed atheists, there aren't any committed theists, either, so WHY HAVE A RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

 

And that still doesn't change all the BSA councils that have clearly used HUD grants to fund BSA programs that exclude atheists.

 

Choose one:

1) HUD grants

2) excluding atheists

 

You don't get both. Yes, many BSA councils are dishonest and get (or try to get) HUD funding anyway. It's pretty telling that you don't seem to be concerned at all about councils lying to get money.

 

The city manager also told me that the funds would be redistributed, so yes, that money WILL go to help the public - ALL of the public, not just the segment that the BSA deigns to allow inside their private, religious club.

[local1400]

Since I am unsquelched this morning, I have to respond. This happened in California and Merlyn claims to be in Minnesota. Why do you care? And are you saying YOU personally are responsible for taking public money from a program for kids? Shame on you. What kind of man goes out of his way to deny kids a recreational opportunity? In a day when more and more youth are a) overweight or obese, b) involved in dangerous gangs, c) using or experimenting with drugs, d) becoming violent offenders, or e) all the above, Merlyn wants to contribute to the further delinquency of youth in America because he's a gay atheist and can't be a Scout leader.

[Hiromi]

I would ad one caveat to local1400's remark.

I do not believe being a gay atheist activist makes Merlin a girly man. Taking soccer programs away from inner city kids makes him a girly-man.

 

Pappy

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Gentlemen, Merlyn is not and never has claimed to be gay, he has repeatedly stated he is married to a good Christian woman. Throwing out gay as a red herring is not proper. I had thought of going in to edit your posts, but that would bring about inqueries about what was edited and why. I disagree with Merlyn about many postions he takes, but I won't lie about his positions or himself either

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

And we hear from two more hypocrites who are blind to the BSA lying to get money and misuse it to discriminate against atheists.

 

Look, CDBG funds have requirements. Dishonest organizations like the Boy Scouts should not lie and sign nondiscrimination agreements to fund their discriminatory programs.

 

The BSA can use CDBG funds to operate nondiscriminatory programs via Learning For Life -- but it looks like the Los Padres council wasn't interested in doing that. Instead of changing their contract to use the money to fund a program open to ALL (like they falsely promised), they just cancelled. They apparently aren't interested in helping kids, only upping the body count of Cub Scouts by running a Soccer & Scouting program. And they'd like to steal money from the public to do it.

 

Oh, but now people are whining about how I'm a meanie and "denying" these services -- when I've already stated that these funds, instead of being spent on the BSA's "private" club, will be redistributed by the city to some organization that's honest and will honor their nondiscrimination agreement, so that the public is really served, instead of the local BSA council's body count to prop up their falling membership numbers.

 

And hardly a word against the Los Padres council for lying in the first place; no, it's all MY fault for shining a light on the BSA's duplicity.

 

Oh, but when it comes to the BSA's dishonesty regarding atheists, many here are completely, insanely blind.

 

Addendum: OGE's article came up while I was editing this, so just to clarify the 'two hypocrites' refer to local1400 and Pappy. Tootles!(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)