SCOUTING AMERICA:--A REORGANIZATION OF BSA

[local1400]

I am always amazed at the number of people who are in charge of a Boy Scout program who want to re-vamp the entire system into what they personally believe BSA should be. Sure we all (myself included) have certain aspects we would like inserted in order to what we THINK will improve the program, but a wholesale, radical change? Again with the Co-ed program. Seems like this comes up every so often. I honestly don't know many 11 to 18 year old girls who would be into a Scouting program. I am sure there are a few, but not the millions "shot-in-the-arm" the pro-girls group thinks it will be. Now, some food for thought before I go shovel more snow: The kids in our community go to a large, regional high school with a almost thousand students. Our troop has 5 h.s. aged boys. If we went co-ed, would they all come flocking? Maybe, but I am just not convinced.

[Bob White]

Sounds lie a local problem to me. If some units have no problems growing and selling the scouting program and some units do, then the problem is obviously due to the leadership in those specific units. Afetr all we all have the same program and scouting resources at our fingertips.

 

Pappy, you say it is up to the membership to right the ship but you have not told us how it would be decided as to which of the 2.5 million members would decide what to change and how it will change. Certainly everyone can't be in charge of the changes.

 

"We need to sell this thing- and I'll tell you fellas- here on the ground in central Illinois- it is a really hard sell."

 

You are having trouble selling 'your' scouting program?

 

[Hiromi]

Bob,

 

Scouting has been on a steady downward decline in our Council, and especially in our district for twenty years. I am a new unit. 5 years. But since my unit was formed two packs has dissolved and troop numbers have plummeted.

 

Bob, you are definitely a company man. You have made that abundantly clear.

 

It is never the BSA's fault in your eyes.

 

So fine. Maybe you're right.

 

But I think BSA can be improved as a business model to create bigger market share of youth programming in this nation.

 

You think it is a problem with training adult volunteers. I have read these arguments of yours on many other threads.

 

I think BSA sends out a confusing Brand with its venturing program. I think it comes off being very ad hoc. And I think it does not communicate to youth very well at all.

 

Pappy

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

scoutingagain writes:

Pappy,

The BSA already has a program very much like you describe. As OGE noted it is called Veturing and is open to all youth ages 14-21.

 

No, that would be Exploring. Venturing still excludes gays and atheists.

[scoutingagain]

Yes Merlyn, thank you for the correction.

 

SA

[Eagledad]

Umm, you need to go study up on the Girls Scouts, Campfire, and Canadian scouts and measure their success after attempting the same progressive design. Not one of those organizations has recovered to the success they had before they changed and I hear the Canadian Scouts is hanging on by a thread. That is a considerable feat considering that the Canadian Scouts had one of the strongest Scouting organizations in the early 90s.

 

In fact, I have not heard a lot about Scouting outside US and Canada, but I wonder if any scouting program in other countries has done better after radically changing to make scouting appealing to everyone.

 

Still, I admire thinking out of the box. Im with Hops_ scout, I think you will do great starting the Pappy Scouts and I wish you the best of luck.

 

Barry

 

 

[Lisabob]

I think one of the difficulties you are having Pappy, is that you seem to be trying to generalize from your own, limited, set of experiences. Yes scouting has issues in some places more than in others. But it is very much alive and well too. Just as one "for example" moment: last night our troop had their Court of Honor. Out of about 45 scouts, we have 3 who are seniors in high school, 8 who are juniors, and 8 who are sophomores. We also welcomed several brand new 5th grade cross overs last night, who were escorted to the stage by an honor guard of older scouts. What a cool moment that was.

 

Within certain broad outlines, the way BSA works right now is just about what you are describing. It allows COs to emphasize the parts of the program they feel are most important, and to downplay others. It allows members of any faith (except agnostics and atheists) to join. There are units out there that pay little more than lip service to the "values" aspect of scouting, as you say. There are probably far more out there that take this seriously, but who do not express their understanding or teaching of "values" in an overtly religious manner. There are others where the doctrine of a particular organized religion directly informs the way the unit operates. So already we have a broad spectrum of "end users" (COs) taking advantage of the considerable flexibility that currently exists within the BSA program. Why we would need another organization like what you propose I don't understand - it seems redundant to me.

 

And before you attempt to say otherwise, I am by no means an apologist for the BSA. There are things I would like to see changed and there are policies that I do not agree with. But the particular charge, and solution, that you mention in this thread simply don't make sense to me.

[Hiromi]

Fair enough Lisa,

 

I've got nothing else to say about it.

 

Pappy

[Bob White]

I am not so much a company man as I am a 'program' man. I think the BSA as a corporation has many of the same problems that most any company that size will have, primarily in the area of comminucations. But I think the program, when delivered as it is designed is second to none as far as youth development and fun.

 

But I am curious under your plan who gets to determine what changes take place and how will the changes be decided.

 

 

 

 

[MarkS]

The BSA values ***ARE*** our program. The outdoors is merely our classroom.

[local1400]

"Sounds lie a local problem to me." Is that some kind of pot(roast)shot at my moniker BW?

[Bob White]

"Sounds like a local problem to me." Sorry for the simiarity local1400, I was refering to papy's previous post regarding loss of membership. While his council may be down, I know that cpouncils adjoining his have had increases in membership.

 

Membership is controlled by the quality of the program delivery by individual local units.

 

In the unit that pappy says he serves he admits they do not follow the BSA program, and that membership in that unit is declining. So what is his solution? Let's have MORE units NOT follow the program, that should boost membership! How? I am not sure anyone has an answer to that.

 

 

[CalicoPenn]

If I'm not mistaken, the Boy Scouts of America started gearing up to offer just this type of reorganized program. It was either called Scouting USA or Scouts USA. The name patch above the pocket on the uniform changed from Boy Scouts of America to Scouts USA or Scouting USA (or something like this - anyone with a better memory than I have please pipe up).

 

The Boy Scouts of America was even in discussion with the Girl Scouts to combine and merge their programs to make this happen.

 

It never fully formed - turns out, people didn't want it.

 

Maybe it's time to try again, but I suspect, as in the past, that people don't really want it.

 

Calico

[RememberSchiff]

Regarding communications and the people who are "in charge of changes", whom should we write at Irving to express what changes, if any, we believe will strengthen the program for the next 100 years.

 

Maybe we can get the membership back over 6 million again, like it was in the late 60's when I was a scout and US population was a less crowded 203 million.

 

and look at our competition...

2007 - Boy's & Girls Club 4.6 million youth, secular, coed, no discrimination, even have their annual Tax Return Form 990 on line and a readable financial statement!

2007 - 4H, 6.5 million members, coed, secular, value-based

 

Yeah 2.5 million BSA members (counting adults), stay the course?

 

 

[Bob White]

Your figures are incorrect. The total youth in the three traditional programs is over 2.5 million that does not include the adult volunteers in those program that toatl over 1.2 million.

 

In 1960 total membership was about 5.1 million.

 

4-H is hardly a good comparison since it has a totally different purpose than the BSA.

 

By the way did you know there is a BSA Camp Schiff again?