Scouting Philosophy Divisions

[Beavah]

I think there is a Scouting Philosophy Continuum, but its end points are not Scouting as School or as a Game. On one end of the Scouting Philosophy Continuum you have what I will call the Classic BSA Philosophy. The Classic BSA Philosophy is based on adherence to the Policies and Procedures of the BSA and the published Training Syllabi. Proponents of this philosophy see the BSA as a national organization and believe that Troop in Florida should have the same organization as a Troop in Maine or Hawaii.(elcted Sentior Patrol Leader, Patrol Leaders, PLC, New Scout Patrol, etc)...

 

On the other side of the Continuum is a more relaxed approach. More of a Laissez Faire Philosophy. In this Philosophy BSA policies and procedures are seen more as guidelines and as long as the Chartering Organization is on board, then just about anything is ok. Proponents of this philosophy tailor their program to the individual needs of the unit and follow the intent of BSAs regulations, if not their letter.

 

Yah, the above was OGE's conjecture from the parent thread, eh?

 

I'm curious what others think. For my part, after I thought about it some, I'd say I've not really seen this division or continuum very much in the "real world" of Scouting I've known. Mostly folks recognize each other as brother and sister scouters, pull up a log around da campfire, and share the magic of Scoutin' with each other. Everyone recognizes that different units do things differently and almost everyone recognizes that each of us makes some adjustments in how we play the game. Heck, that's what makes those campfires so darn interestin'!

 

I think this "division" is just an odd quirk of online forums; maybe just this one. How do the rest of you feel?

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White]

Once again you create a false argument. You suggest that to have a fun relaxed scout program you cannot follow the rules, and that to know the and use the program Methods you cannot have fun. That's simply not true. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

Can you not play a game AND follow the rules? If your family wanted to play Monopoly would say "yes, but only if I can ignore the rules and play however I want because that is the only way I can have fun"?

 

Your choices are not logical. If you are going to have a spectrum then pick opposite ends of the same topic and not try to suggest that following the rules means not having fun or that having fun is against the rules. Neither end of the spectrum you offer is valid.

 

Your attempt to control the outcome by obscuring the subject is an unfortunate choice for you to make.

[local1400]

"I think this "division" is just an odd quirk of online forums; maybe just this one. How do the rest of you feel?" I feel maybe in the last couple of weeks we are all suffering from cabin fever or something, and we just need a group hug. My fun meter is so low, it barely registers.

[FireKat]

local, have you read the lawyer thread?

I still snicker when I think of coffee and that is often for this coffee hound! I hope it did not burn too much and you're OK ed.(This message has been edited by firekat)

[evmori]

Bob,

 

I'm gonna pretend this is Nightline & I am Ted Koppel.

 

"Bob White, you didn't answer the question posed by Beavah".

 

Back to myself now.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

I do not think that word means what you think it does...

Inigo Montoya

I did not think the words Division and Continuum were synonyms, perhaps I should have said Spectrum

To be fair to the readers of this thread who may not have read the post Beavah quotes, here is the summation:

"I must say neither is completely right or wrong, although I admit a bias so if it shows through, I am sorry. All units will fall somewhere on the Continuum. Sometimes they may be very Classic while on other topics much more Laissez Faire. The mix of philosophy is dictated by the personality and understanding of the BSA program by the adults. Is one side wrong? Nope, I dont think so although I have my ideas but that is not as issue. On a thread recently I read where a Troop petitioned and received permission from their Council Executive to wear Olive BDUs instead of the uniform pants. Now, the Council Executive does not actually have the power to do this, say the Classic proponents, but the Laissez Faire group says look at the good things the scouts learned and as long as it kept them in Scouting, what does it hurt?

 I am looking for the division,

[Beavah]

Yah, sorry OGE if I used imprecise language, eh? When definin' a continuum, though, you're defining a line by naming its endpoints, eh? Can't say I rightly know what to call that... I tried division, but perhaps distinction? dichotomy? differentiation? Pick a word that works for you.

 

Mostly I've found that folks sittin' around a campfire together try to respond to da person's meaning, eh? Though perhaps I was subconsciously respondin' to how divisive a couple folks want to make everything.

 

I'm still curious about da thoughts of other regular posters. I'm of the mind this is really an online or scouter.com thing. Never heard such speculation anywhere else, which is why I'm curious. Certainly it's not been a part of any BSA discussions I've been aware of or party to.

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

" When definin' a continuum, though, you're defining a line by naming its endpoints, eh?"

 

A line can be defined by two points but lines have no endpoints. By definition, lines are infinite. Line segments have two ends. Continua cover an "interval."

[Nessmuk]

The subject of "division" within the BSA has been on my mind a lot(fortunately or unfortunately) since I became active in Scouting again several years ago..

 

As a Scout I used to look at the Royal Rangers dismissively and sometimes poked fun at them based on what I was told about them by leaders and older scouts. Now looking at what's been happening in BSA and Scouting worldwide, I can appreciate much better why they are a seperate organization and respect them for it.

 

I see "BP-Scouts" worldwide (in the US too) (and apparently growing)

 

And of course there are the general divisions inside of BSA..

 

I don't wish the BSA to have a schism, but I also don't wish to be a member of and promote a movement which goes against my fundamental ethics and beliefs.

 

I predict BSA will very likely see a major schism (like a 50 /50) if there is an elimination or major relaxation of our stance on one or more key issues like religious beliefs and God or acceptance of homosexuals as members..

 

Oddly I don't think such a schism will reduce the impact or presence of scouting, but will likely draw many people towards the movement more strongly. I see this in action as many parents I know don't want to be in Scouting becasue it in reality is too wishy-washy and "caught on the fencepost"..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FireKat]

One thing that can happen online that may not occure around a reular campfire is the anonymity. People are freer to say what is on their minds without (most times) being tagged as trouble.  I fell this allows a better exchange of ideas. We are not so afraid to try out radical thoughts.

[Beavah]

Yah, that's an interestin' point FireKat. It would explain why it seems fairly unique to this particular online venue to me.

 

Any of you younger, more savvy net denizens see this in other non-scouting forums?

 

B

 

[Hunt]

I have to agree that I have rarely (if ever) in the real world heard a discussion of whether a particular unit was more rule-bound or more laissez-faire. When I do hear criticisms, it tends to be that the unit is an "Eagle Mill," or that it doesn't support the district and council by selling popcorn or attending the local camp, or that it's too small, or too big, etc. When I hear a troop being praised for having a "good program," that usually refers to its outdoor program. When I read articles in the paper about a unit, it's either (a) some beneficial project it did or (b) the number of Eagles it produces.

I think something that goes on here that doesn't happen as much in the real world is delving more into the behind-the-scenes elements that make a program or less effective. In the real world, we're more likely to discuss how the mosquitoes were at the camp this summer.

[Lisabob]

I have come across this type of discussion in the "real" world but it tends to be over-shadowed by a desire to suppose that most units and most Scouters are doing the best they can and really trying to stick to the program. In other words, it is a friendlier type of discussion than what sometimes occurs here, and aspersions are rarely cast upon people's character in the course of that discussion.

 

 

[Hiromi]

I agree with Nessmuk's assessment. I think a schism may be inevitable and maybe even preferable if we consider our nation and where it is headed. It will, in my estimation, reflect the cold civil war that seems to currently being waged in our country with no end in sight.

 

Maybe a thread could be titled- Blue-State BSA / Red State BSA.

 

 

The Blue State Boy Scouts

 

Liberals, especially of the radical variety, might be attracted to a scouting that mirrored more of what the European and Canadian scouts are doing. They can be lax on uniforms, have homosexual and transgender families feel at home, emphasize the zero trace environmental aspect of ladder day scouting, an emphasis on the critical role of America as it pertains to injustices against the working man, the native American, the Races other than White, its intervention overseas, and its contribution to pollution, global warming, and energy over-usage.. This might also attract liberal professionals, college professors and teacher families, and Liberal Church groups and generate new liberal FOS contributions.

 

 

The Red State Boy Scouts

 

Conservatives, especially the social conservatives, on the other hand might be more attracted to an overtly patriotic and God & Country scouting with an emphasis on uniforms with an exceptionalist view of U.S. History. In such a scouting the boys would learn of Mans contribution to understanding of the physical world through science, agriculture, philosophy, art and architecture, etc... There would be a special emphasis on civic duty and the ceremonial rites of the flag, traditional BP scouting, and male adult leadership in both the Cub and Scout ranks. There might be a focus on the building and pioneer skills aspect of scouting. This might also attract military families, blue collar tradesman families, recent immigrants who have conservative and religious roots and want their boys to assimilate and learn English, and Conservative Church groups, and Conservative FOS contributions.

 

 

Both of these two might draw more form a base that is equally repelled from scouting in its current incarnation.

 

It could be an overall gain for scouting in general.

 

Pappy