Scouts oath "is religious discrimination"

[packsaddle]

Trevorum, you have a diabolical mind. I like that.

[scoutingagain]

"If you put the Judeo Christian religion on the par of Wickans and the tooth fairy, then you are arguing for relativism that undermines not only Boy Scouting, but the underpinnings of our civilization."

 

Uh, I believe the BSA already does put Wiccans and the Tooth Fairy, along with many other beliefs on par with the Judeo Christian religion.

 

Where's that quote about a rock when you need it?

 

SA

[OldGreyEagle]

how about :

 

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/31/atheist.scout.ap/

 

it wasnt a rock, it was Mother Nature, coudl have been a rock but this is what I found

 

 

"We've asked him to search his heart, to confer with family members, to give this great thought," Brad Farmer, the Scout executive of the Chief Seattle Council of the Boy Scouts, told The Sun of Bremerton.

 

"If he says he's an avowed atheist, he does not meet the standards of membership."

 

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize some higher power, not necessarily religious. "Mother Nature would be acceptable," Farmer said. "

 

 

as would Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy one would think

(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[packsaddle]

"...as would Santa Claus and Tooth Fairy one would think..."

 

Man, you should see me in my fairy costume!

[OldGreyEagle]

::the mind shudders and the body recoils::

[fgoodwin]

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but its worth remembering that England has an established (i.e., state-sponsored) church, viz., the Church of England.

 

That fact alone makes comparisons to the US situation somewhat problematic. I suspect the role of the CoE in English culture is somewhat different than the role of non-established U.S. churches in American culture.

[Pint]

This is the Scout promise ( oath) in question:

 

On my honour,

I promise that I will do my best

To do my duty to God and to The Queen,

To help other people

And to keep the Scout Law.

 

and the Scout Law that goes with the above:

 

A Scout is to be trusted.

A Scout is loyal.

A Scout is friendly and considerate.

A Scout belongs to the world-wide family of Scouts.

A Scout has courage in all difficulties.

A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.

A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

 

 

 

And this from the UK Scout Associatiosn policy organisation and Rules (POR):

 

"The Scout Association is part of a world-wide educational youth movement. The values, which underpin and inspire its work are embodied in the Scout Promise and Law and in the Purpose of the Association."

 

the only thing about relegion in there is this:

"With reference to religious belief, the avowed absence of religious belief is a bar to appointment to a Leadership position."

There is no mention of Young people who dont have any relegious beleif, although to become members they have to say the Scout promise and law.

 

On the 1st of January 2007, UK Scouting went fully Co-ed see the link below

http://www.scouts.org.uk/magazine/DecJan06/p28.html

 

 

And theres also this, which i beleive is an issue in the USA at the moment:

 

 

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185082.pdf

 

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185081.pdf

 

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/pdfs/fs185083.pdf

 

 

As for religion and Scouting, in my experience there has been vrry little Relegious stuff, appart form the once a year St georges day parade which has almost alway ended up at a christian church, and the Rememberance day parades/service, as well as the odd Scouts own service at a camp ( which apparently should now be multi faith and concentrate more on the spiritual side of things, avoiding the word God ) theres not much else.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

There does seem to be very little actual religion in scouting in the UK, which only makes the SA's refusal to make 'god' in the promise optional seem even less reasonable. Is there any purpose in both requiring atheist kids to be admitted and requiring them to say they promise to do their 'duty to god'?

[Pint]

The "duty to God" bit is, i think a requirement from the World Organisation of the Scout movement, and as far as i know there are only a few Scout organisations that Duty to god is an optional part of the Scout Promise (Oath)

 

one of those countries is Holland, and this is from wikipedia

 

"The Dutch Scout Promise is one of the few in the world where the reference to God is optional. It makes the Netherlands an exception to the WOSM guidelines. The Constitution of WOSM states that the Promise should include a reference to Duty to God [1], but six countries, including the Netherlands were granted the right in the 1920s to additionally use an alternative promise without a reference to God. [2] WOSM stated in 1932 that no new exceptions will be made and has expressed the hope that the few remaining countries will stop using any promise lacking a reference to Duty to God."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting_netherlands