Who will help with my taxes?

[Lisabob]

sorry - Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (current name for what is often referred to as "welfare").

 

Sure there are people who abuse any system. I'm not convinced they're the norm though. Maybe there is a sampling bias issue, both with regard to where you worked and where I work.

[ASM857]

Everyone has valid points in this argument, I can only speak from my experiances. Welfare abuse is rampant in my area, I was a manager for a grocery store, were I had people wearing leather jackets I would see in a store and couldnt affoard come in and buy steaks, with food stamps. Yes everyone is entitled to a good steak but if your on assistance buy ground round for $1.99 apound rather than Sirloin for $3.29. I wish our country had the backbone in my grandfathers & fathers life, were people stood on thier values not the most recent poll numbers. You may not agree with our current President but he was elected by the people, and the overseas action was approved by both the senate & congress. Locally Counties are raising home appraisels currently average here is 40% making tax rates a burden on older households, I'll let you guess which party is in control here. My fater told me long ago serve God, Family, Country, and I try to live my life to this. Thats why I spend time hopefully shaping the young leaders of the future with values to go against the easy way.

Thanks for the opertunity to Rant

YIS

Doug Buth

[local1400]

scoutldr says "I will probably vote for Ron Paul". I had no idea that cross-dressing entertainer was running for President!

[funscout]

I agree with ScoutLdr and ASM857 that welfare abuse is and has been a problem for a long time. I also know that there are people who truly need it. One family I know of is an example of both sides. A man I used to work with, was working as a teacher Aide by day, and a waiter at night, while going to school to better himself. When his class load became too heavy, he had to give up one of his jobs, and he accepted govt. assistance for his wife, 2 kids and himself. As soon as he finished school, he got off welfare, and supported his family of four by himself. His sister, however, chose to have a baby (by a different father) every few years, so she could get money from the Women, Infant, Children program. She readily admitted that that was why she kept having babies out of wedlock.

 

I also know of several families whose kids receive free lunch, and yet these families have cable TV, a TV in every child's bedroom, one or more video game systems, and many other things that my family does not have. If those same families would be willing to give up cable TV, they could then buy their own kids' lunches.

 

I, too am disgusted with people who think the govt. owes them social security money. After all, who is the govt? It is all of US! I know my parents didn't rely on social security, and neither will my family. Obviously some people truly do need help, but unfortunately the majority of people who take from the govt. don't really need it, and/or wouldn't need it if they simply made responsible choices in their lives.

[funscout]

local1400,

 

I think the guy/gal you're thinking of is Rue Paul.

[OldGreyEagle]

I beleive the gentleman's (!!!) stage name is RuPaul.

[Beavah]

Yah, there's no question that there are a lot of families in need, eh? And some folks just get down on their luck. Loss of a job in a weak labor market can put the house at risk and blow through a young family's savings in no time.

 

But I, too, have seen my share of abuse and some outright fraud in the welfare system.

 

Problem is, government is just plain lousy at helpin' people. If you're just dolin' out money according to some formula, then it's guaranteed that people will game the system. Lay down a set of rules, and anybody with a brain will figure out how to use da rules to get the most.

 

What we want to do, I think, is to exercise judgment on individual cases, eh? To say to one: "Yep, we understand, here's some help to get yeh by and some contacts to get you goin' again." To say to another "Yah, well, we're goin' to make you sit through 6 months of trainin' on personal financial management and then we'll help you once. Blow it again and you're on your own." And to a third "Nope, sorry, you're just scammin' the system. Go get a real job." Without the paperwork and bureaucracy, which makes it hard for someone strugglin' to navigate the system and only adds to the overhead costs.

 

And yeh probably need folks from outside da neighborhood/area to be administering things, eh? Otherwise, with that much money floatin' around, there's always going to be cronyism and corruption.

 

That's where I think funscout is right. Individuals and small charities that aren't burdened by law and entitlement mentality do a better job than government ever will. Yeh need room for judgment and "tough love," and yeh have to be motivated by a sense of Mission, not regulation.

 

Social security has always been a Ponzi scheme. My favorite these days are da "Social Security Supplement" payments to everybody from immigrants to drug addicts. Friend of mine has a 23-year-old nephew who gets $2K or so a month from SS because he's been "disabled" by his drug addiction... which he uses to help finance his drug addiction.

 

Government has a place. It's needed to provide safety, a transparent and fair monetary/economic system, and infrastructure like roads. But it should get out of da charity business.

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn]

Working on the assumption "you can't fix stupid" and if we buy into the idea that:

"the majority of people who take from the govt. don't really need it, and/or wouldn't need it if they simply made responsible choices in their lives."

I have to wonder what we do with these Stupid people who have made bad choices?

Do we bring back the Work House?

Oliver Twist is one of my favorite books!!

At present the cost of locking someone up in PA runs at about $40,000 a year, with some forced labor we might be able to bring that cost down.

What if we make it so that they don't have the same choices?

Sterilization or maybe some form of a chastity belt?

Take away the food stamps and free school lunch? Replace it with a bowl of gruel?

Do we turn these stupid people who are unable to make the good or right choices out on the street to become beggars?

Boy that would help the crime rate!!

Heck if these people are not really any good? Why bother? We could just line them up and shoot them all!

 

Isn't one of the reasons that we as Scouter's spend our time working with youth to help the next generation be able to make good choices?

If a Scout is indeed really kind? If we really take "To help other people at all times" to heart? Don't we have an obligation to look after and do what we can to help these stupid people who seem unable to make good choices?

 

"Is it not to give your bread to those in need, and to let the poor who have no resting-place come into your house? to put a robe on the unclothed one when you see him, and not to keep your eyes shut for fear of seeing his flesh?"

Isaiah 58:7

Eamonn.

 

[Beavah]

Is it not to give your bread to those in need, and to let the poor who have no resting-place come into your house? to put a robe on the unclothed one when you see him, and not to keep your eyes shut for fear of seeing his flesh?"

 

Yah, Eamonn, but that obligation of faith is a personal one, eh? We're called to personal charity.

 

To my mind "government charity" doesn't meet that obligation, because it allows us to feel good without ever lookin' the person in need in the face or lettin' him anywhere near our neighborhood let alone into our house. "Keeping our eyes shut for fear of seeing his flesh" as your friend Isaiah puts it so poetically.

 

Just like with kids, service to others involves gettin' to know 'em well enough to decide what would really be of service. Lots of times, saying "no" and making 'em live with the consequences of their choices is the right way to love and care for children, eh? No less so for adults.

 

But yah, sure, I'd entertain your notion of work camps for some folks, eh? Provides shelter and food, and a more stable environment for the kids, while demandin' hard work and forcibly changing bad habits. You're sentenced to 'em until you can hold a real job for 6 months (with a good employer recommendation) and find housing of your own.

 

Beavah

 

[beardad]

I think that is exactly the point. It isn't the Gov't job to help people to make good decisions.

 

It should be the job of privately funded org's like Scouts.

[Gold Winger]

"Heck if these people are not really any good? Why bother? We could just line them up and shoot them all!"

 

Works for me, it's cheaper than the alternatives.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.

 

Such a timeless seasonal thought...

[BrentAllen]

"Is it not to give your bread to those in need,..."

 

Key word being NEED. As funscout pointed out, the free lunch program is a joke. No income verification, just say you are below the income level and your kid eats for free. This has become such an entitlement that if you don't take advantage of it, you are a sucker!

 

I'm not so cruel hearted to do away with the program. I just say modify it so the free lunch is a baloney sandwich and a glass of milk, every day. The free lunch program would drop by about 75% overnight. Once you've shaken out the cheats, go back and give the really needy kids the regular meals. Or, start conducting income verifications to at least cut out the semi-honest cheats.

[John-in-KC]

Y'all are making me very happy I live in my particular school district.

[Eamonn]

Beavah,

What you said seemed to make a lot of sense.

I like the idea of facing the people who I might be helping.

But more and more this isn't the case.

Donations to causes I deem worthy are made either by check and mailed or on line with the good old Visa card.

I find it a little upsetting that others are happy to not try and do everything that we can to help people who need it.

While there are loop holes and at times some people do abuse programs that are in place to help and aid others. Harming and hurting the people who do need the help, because of the abusers is not the way to go.

I feel very blessed that I have never had to use any of the social programs offered.

I don't really know how they work.

It's a little to easy for me with the best health insurance that is available to look down my nose at the socialized medical programs offered by other countries. I'm sure if I was one of the working poor and didn't have the benefit of Blue Cross Blue Shield, with co-payments that more than lightly cost more to collect that they are worth, or I had to pay the full price for that wonder drug and not the $5.00 I now pay, my view would be different.

OJ has never had to face the stigma of people knowing that he is waiting for a free school lunch or knowing that the lunch might be his only meal of the day.

It's all to easy to point fingers at parents who have problems with drugs, booze and mothers who have unprotected sex with multiple partners, but pointing fingers at the kids is in my view just not right. It isn't the kids fault.

Of course my donating a few bucks locally that ensures poor families receive a Christmas dinner and the kids get a toy is nice and makes me feel good, but I don't live in the poorer part of Philadelphia, where the crime rate is high and kids who join gangs and deal drugs don't live very long.

I can't fix the problems there. We as a nation need to fix the problems and treat the symptoms.

If this means spending more money and higher taxes. I'm willing to pay my share.

Eamonn.