LDS, Christians, and Politics

[OldGreyEagle]

Given some of the posts and discourse found here and in other post, why would any member of the LDS give us the time of day?

 

Why should anyone care if the "denomination" they practice fits the definition of what someone else considers "Christianity"?

[packsaddle]

Captainron14,

The presence of an explicit religious element to our political system is obvious. The fact that a born-again Christian minister with modest resources (Huckabee) has gained such a quick lead over a devout Mormon with a huge war chest (Romney) raises all kinds of questions about the role of religion in government and how religion might influence or control our system. Moreover, when Huckabee recently wondered that Mormons consider Jesus and Satan to be brothers, the conflict that had previously been merely a question of what constitutes a Christian now crossed into questions about religious truth.

 

The American people evidently want religion to have a prominent role in our government. If this is true, then the question of that truth is important to all of us and it opens the door to the examination of ALL faiths, not just those who descended from space aliens.

Therefore to answer your question, I predict that the next flavor to get the hot seat will depend on who the next political candidate is who claims to be defined by another religious view. So far all we have is Huckabee and Romney. But there's plenty of time for more...the suspense is terrrible....I hope it will last.

 

Trevorum, poor man, you'd like the UUs to get that kind of attention wouldn't you? They're easily among the most educated, intelligent, and thoughtful people of faith. When has any of that been important for matters of faith? So, you see, just the same way that BSA basically shrugged after snubbing them over the religious award, no one else cares either.

[BrentAllen]

pack,

I know you have been waiting patiently for me. :-) I don't know much about Mormonism, except that they are big on geneology and are very good at record-keeping. I've never needed to know whether they are considered Christian or not, and really don't feel the need to know now. I will base my decision on voting on Romney on his record as an elected official, not on his religion.

 

Someone asked about the location of the tablets of the 10 Commandments. They are located in the Ark of the Covenant, stored in a secret government warehouse. GW Bush knows where it is and visits it often, but Clinton was afraid to go near it. ;^)

 

Me personally, I attend a Baptist church, but you won't hear the word "Baptist" there very often. Our pastor is of the opinion that the church membership should look like heaven, which he thinks will be a pretty broad spectrum of humanity. Our church reflects that thinking; when you look at the membership on Sunday mornings, it is a pretty diverse group, covering nearly all ages, races, sexes and nationalities. We even had a prayer offered in Czech last Sunday. This is much different from the all-white Baptist churches I grew up in. Our beliefs and the message haven't changed - we haven't watered down our beliefs to draw in more people - but the attitude and approach of the members has. I think this group is much more welcoming and friendly. Of course, we live in much more diverse neighborhoods than we did 30 years ago, so my comparison may not be fair.

 

pack - a while back, you said you had a hard time understanding the concept of sin. Our pastor defines sin as any act that hurts Jesus's heart. Does that help?

[le Voyageur]

Captain Ron....

 

It seems that I may of offended you dispite my best efforts not to openly target anyone of this board.

 

But yes, I'm an apostate, and now a full blown agnostic because of mormonism. Also, I post on several ex mormon boards to help those who are recovering from mormonism; or starting the process to break away from mormonism; or simply to answer questions of non members who didn't want the boiler plated answers of the mormon church, or the missionaries that knock on their door.

 

Additionally, on one of the boards we ex's have become so infamous in steering people out of harms way, that the mormon church has decided to wage war on us. They are now in the process of hiring a staff of apologetics with PhD's to counter our arguments. We feel that this is due in large measure to Romney's run for the brass ring. We're looking forward to their best efforts...

 

 

[Beavah]

Which Church is next on the block? No mater what denomination you can think of, there will be something(s) that can be torn down, belittled and "Proven wrong/false or what ever. Come on now, lets keep this fair.

 

Yah, I think this is the inevitable result of religion bein' on the "public stage" in a campaign, eh? I know plenty of folks who immediately crossed off of their list of candidates to vote for da Republicans who admitted they believed in Biblical Creation at that one debate, eh? Huckabee was one.

 

If yeh raise your belief as a matter of record in a campaign, seems like yeh should be asked to explain that position and take heat for it. Same as if yeh raised your belief in Keynesian Economics Yeh can't say, as Romney has tried, "Vote for me, I'm a God-fearin' family man" and "Don't ask me about my religion, it's personal." That's been the difference between Kennedy's and Romney's approach, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

Hi Brent, I think each of us will make what we think is the best and most-rational decision we can. At least I hope so. But this year the candidates, at least on the Republican side, have made religion a political issue. And that is making things very interesting. This may end up being a very long-lived thread.

 

Anyway, I found my old copy of the Book of Mormon (my family flirted with it back when I was a teen). I plan to read it this weekend and try to remember all the things those two missionaries said so long ago.

 

LeVoyageur, I also poked around some of those other very long utube videos. All I can say is...Wow! You be careful out there.

[GernBlansten]

The issue is religious fundamentalism. The two candidates who have raised their religion as a qualifier to being POTUS could also be considered to be members of fundamentalist sects. They have claimed that they will be guided by those beliefs. One would expect that those who are fundamentalists see things as black and white with not grey areas. And that those views are based on Biblical interpretations and not subject to debate or compromise. I also think that is a characteristic that would isolate and marginalize the POTUS especially if those Biblical views ran contrary to the will of the people.

 

Personally, I don't care what religion a politician is. They can be Mormon, athiest, Catholic, Buddhist, or Scientologist. I begin to care when they want me to care, like Huckabee and Romney.

[Trevorum]

It's times like these when I miss Rooster. Really.

[purcelce]

This has been a really interesting topic...time for me to chime in and give my humble opinion.

 

My background...raised Catholic,went to Catholic grade and high school, my troop as a you was a Catholic troop. When I joined and for several years I considered myself Catholic, attended Mass every now an then. In 98 I started going to a small Catholic Church. Moved and only went to Mass every now and then. When I got back into Scouting in 02 I only attended Mass at Scouting events...I started getting the feeling and need to get back to Church more often. I attended Mass and even a few Scouts Own services more often. Started talking to a guy in my troop who was Catholic about starting the process to get me back into full communion with the Catholic Church as I was divorce.

In 2003 I was dating a young lady who attended a United Methodist Church...I started going with just about every Sunday. Started bringing my kids to this Church. The church members gave me a sincere welcome and I felt I belonged to this group. I joined this Church formally in Nov 03. I became Methodist not because of the doctrine, but because of the people at the Church and the way this congergation open their arms to me.

Now I work there as a member of the staff (going on 3 years). (so much for a brief background lol)

 

Now back to the point... I have a few freinds that are Mormon and do not look at them as Mormon but as people just like me and you.

 

I do not agree with the teachings of the LDS doctine. Why because they are not the true teachings of Christ. I do not get into debates about relgion, but I will discuss my beliefs with others and will listen to others.

 

Sorry about the rambling

[SWScouter]

Hey Gern, I doubt Romney wants anything to do with the FLDS church! Their prophet just got sentenced to jail for supporting underage sex or something like that (FLDS practice polygamy and marry off very young women (13/14) to grown men). The FLDS is all the media rage here in Phoenix.

[le Voyageur]

As in any church there are different labels that can be applied to it's members. Within the LDS community, Romney would be considered a Legacy Mormon with Brighamite leanings, but never a FLDS...

 

 

[GernBlansten]

I consider any faith that rejects what is commonly accepted scientific pricinples is fundamentalist. Mainstream Mormonism falls into that category.

[packsaddle]

Gern, your definition might work. I try not to apply labels but I have known quite a few people who applied the 'fundamentalist' label to themselves. The common characteristic that I can identify is more general than rejection of certain scientific ideas. They all seemed to think they possessed the ONLY and the ABSOLUTE truth. Which, I'm sure you understand, automatically puts them at odds with much of science. So if I had to identify defining characteristics, those would be mine.

 

To everyone in this thread in general, one of my colleagues today noted that with the rise of religious identity as an issue in this election and the general increase of its prominence in recent years, he thought that there might just be a sort of Christianity test, now, that candidates think they must pass. Any thoughts?

[Lisabob]

"he thought that there might just be a sort of Christianity test, now, that candidates think they must pass. "

 

Sadly I believe that is true, though in an informal manner. I've noticed that more and more of my students (I teach a lot of American Politics classes at a large state university) have been expressing this view. Since I teach many first year students, this leads me to believe their parents are probably expressing the same view at home. (Sure, some 18 year olds form political views independently, but the majority still parrot whatever their parents believe at that age - including those who seem to think they are diametrically opposed to their parents' generation's ideas.)

 

But I don't think this is good for American politics or society. Christian or not, there are plenty of good, plenty of "bad" people out there. And just because the population of the US is majority "Christian" (whatever that means...as this thread demonstrates!), doesn't make protection of minority religious groups any less important. I've been appalled in recent years at the ignorance and downright lack of manners that many of my students show when discussing non-Christian religions. It's one thing to oppose something when you know something about it; quite another to do so based on gross misinformation and prejudice.

 

As for Mormons - I'm more than happy to let people decide for themselves how they identify their own religious beliefs. Happily, this is not my business. And by the way, most people in MI remember George Romney (Mitt's dad) first as having been a competent governor, second as a Republican, and perhaps distantly, as a Mormon too. People here seem more impressed by his ability to govern than his religion. Wish that were true elsewhere. But then, these are different times too.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Lisa's comments about freshman college students reminds me of a political joke I have tucked away somewhere. This is just a joke, out of Readers Digest, I think.

 

A political science professor asks his freshman students to raise their hands if they are Republicans. About half the class does. He asks a blond co-ed why she considers herself a Republican. "Probably because my parents are Republicans" she answers. "Well, if your parents were morons, what would that make you?" the professor jabbed at her. "Then I guess I would be a Democrat" she replied with a smile.