Eugene Evans (of Evans v. Berkeley) arrested for molesting Sea Scouts

[FScouter]

"I don't know about that FScouter. One of the reasons for the Sedition Act of 1798 was of all the "false, scandalous, and malicious writing" the newspapers were printing."

"FS, sensational journalism is by no means a recent phenomenon. Google "yellow journalism". "

 

You're both right of course. Proof again that the olden days were not always better. Sadly, one must stil be picky about discerning when the "news" is honest and when it's not.

 

[packsaddle]

Because things seem to be getting personal on several fronts, I want to state that I have never used the 'ignore' button nor will I. I consider that action to be the strongest form of statement of contempt for the targeted individual and, as such, represents an unfriendly (and unscoutlike) act.

The ignore button also deprives the reader of even the smallest shred of information that might be contained in a post, and which could be useful. I'd rather just glean the good stuff and shrug off the rest.

[Beavah]

Yah, one really does get tired of bein' called a liar. Merlyn and GW must be peas in a pod, eh?

 

What I actually said was "I'm astonished yeh would support such a thing, Merlyn." That was da truth, eh? I would be really astonished if Merlyn supported such a thing, given his emphasis on civil liberties and all.

 

Now, it may be that Merlyn couldn't understand my accent, eh . And it could be that I would have been clearer had I put an "if" in there..."I'm astonished if yeh would support...". But da nature of typin' fast on-line means that sometimes the words we "hear" in our own heads aren't the same ones others "hear" in their heads when they read 'em.

 

As I would tell a scout, when we listen to another, we should presume that the other person is a good soul, and interpret their comments in the best light. And if we can't, we should ask for clarification. Look for error in our own communication or interpretation first, and never throw a temper tantrum or berate someone in public unless we first gently approach 'em in private.

 

I don't always succeed in livin' up to that, but I will continue to try.

 

So though Merlyn misinterpreted me, I shan't call him a liar . And though he dropped the discourse to a new low rather than respondin' intelligently to the issues presented, I shan't call him a fool.

 

But I confess I do find his efforts to use the victimization of children to press his personal anti-BSA agenda to be distasteful.

 

Beavah

 

[CA_Scouter]

It bears repeating: ( paraphrased )

 

Trev: "However, as has been observed previously, in this forum your combative and accusatory style of dialogue invariably loses you any points that you make on substance..... not because of WHAT you have to say, but because of HOW you interact with other posters. "

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Did anyone catch this bizarre comment:

 

http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=2492

 

Openly gay Berkeley City Councilman Kriss Worthington, who led the fight to revoke the Sea Scouts' free use of the marina, recalled Evans this week as "the guy who made it a crusade to fight the city over our not giving resources to a group that discriminates."

 

... "He and the kids are just one more casualty of the Boy Scout's discriminatory policy. If the Sea Scouts and Boy Scouts would allow people to be out, then he could have led his life as an out person and not had to ..."

 

------

 

So he's saying that closeted gay men are all child molesters? We need to let them be "out" in order to protect the children??

 

Another great example of how silly and distateful it is to try to use child victims to advance a personal agenda.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagledad]

>>I consider that action to be the strongest form of statement of contempt for the targeted individual and, as such, represents an unfriendly (and unscoutlike) act.

[jr56]

Is Merlyn even a registered member of the BSA? I wonder if his participation on this forum is "Troll" behavior, just trying to see how big a rise he can get out of us?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Beavah writes:

What I actually said was "I'm astonished yeh would support such a thing, Merlyn." That was da truth, eh?

 

No, it wasn't.

 

And it could be that I would have been clearer had I put an "if" in there..."I'm astonished if yeh would support..."

 

Not "clearer", it's a different statement. I would not have called you a liar if you had written that.

 

But I confess I do find his efforts to use the victimization of children to press his personal anti-BSA agenda to be distasteful.

 

I'm criticizing the BSA for their lax youth protection which lead to the victimization of children.

 

jr56, I used to be a cub scout. I actively work against the BSA's discriminatory policies (especially governmental support of their discriminatory policies) as part of Scouting For All.

[Lisabob]

jr56, I don't know that I would equate Merlyn's behavior with typical "troll" behavior. For one thing, whether one agrees or disagrees with his specific points, Merlyn's substantive arguments are generally well-thought-out and meticulously expressed. Trolls usually post a couple of certain bombs and then fail to follow up with anything like reasoned argument. That said, I whole-heartedly agree with Trev's statement that sometimes Merlyn's style gets in the way of his message, and I do tire of "hearing" him call people "liar" all the time when, at least sometimes, I think the matter is more one of misunderstanding. And that's not so uncommon with online forums. A little more patience on Merlyn's part, and less of a desire to assume people are necessarily LYING about him and his views, would be welcomed. Not that I expect it.

 

But all the same, I'm glad we have Merlyn here. I agree with some things he says, disagree with others, but I think it is really important to have people who are willing and able to challenge the conventional view. If nothing else, having someone like Merlyn involved in the "conversation" causes all of us to think a little harder and deeper about what we, ourselves, believe, and how to articulate our own beliefs.

[packsaddle]

Nicely stated, Lisabob. I quite agree.

[evmori]

 

I'm criticizing the BSA for their lax youth protection which lead to the victimization of children.

 

Merlyn,

 

Are you an ACLU member? I think you posted somewhere you are. Have you ever criticized the ACLU for their lax youth protection which lead to the victimization of children?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Beavah]

I'm still wonderin' how the BSA was "lax."

 

Merlyn, would you fire someone from their job based on thirdhand rumor about what they did when they were a high school sophomore? With no substantiatin' documentation of any kind? That was the situation in Idaho, eh, that yeh seem to feel so strongly about.

 

The BSA moved immediately to terminate Mr. Evans' BSA membership as soon as there were credible allegations against him. That seems pretty responsible.

 

Or do yeh feel like the Berkeley council member that closeted gay men all become child molesters? And the BSA is lax by not lettin' 'em "come out."?

 

Pretty much, the BSA's incidence rate of this kind of stuff is no worse than any other youth workers, and better than some. Their response is pretty good, actually, given that in most cases they aren't the supervisors of the volunteers in the units.

 

Beavah

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'm still wonderin' how the BSA was "lax."

 

How did Evans get to be alone with Sea Scouts if there was two-deep leadership?

[CA_Scouter]

Merlyn,

 

A good point. I'm guessing that Mr. Evans deliberatly and purposefully ignored the two deep leadership rule in order to be alone with the youth members. I'm thinking that sexual deviants of his like will do illegal and underhanded things in order to get themselves alone with children.

 

I don't know that the BSA had any prior knowledge of Mr. Evans alleged pedophilia. If they did, then they were certainly lax. If they didn't then perhaps they were lax in not hiring a psychic to forsee this possibility with Mr. Evans.

 

In any case, it seems you are more determined to blame the BSA for this incident rather than Mr. Evans himself. How odd.

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Merlyn, lad, two-deep leadership is protection in the event of an emergency and such (and in a more limited way against false accusation). It ain't proof against poison.

 

Truth is, anytime any adult becomes a "trusted person" to a child and parent, there become opportunities to engineer private meetings and the like. Just the way it is. Bad guys do their best to look like good guys, and don't necessarily follow da rules, eh? Meet early at the boat to work on the engine, stay late to clean up, go to dinner for a skipper conference. Doesn't have to be a Ship activity, eh? "Come over to mow my lawn, I'll pay you." "I've got an extra ticket to the hockey game, ask your mom if you can come." Search warrants were served at multiple locations, not just the boat.

 

The man was a school teacher for many years. We both know it's pretty likely they'll turn up some abuse of those high school boys too, eh? Are yeh goin' to go after public schools for their lack of a two-deep policy?

 

But the most important thing is that it ain't the BSA's job to supervise unit leaders. BSA doesn't have any responsibility for that. That's the role of the Chartered Organization. BSA is just the insurer and the materials provider.

 

So we're back to using hurt kids to bash the BSA unfairly. Much as we like to blame people, often the only people who really should be blamed are the criminals.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)