Do you agree 100% with BSA policies?

[packsaddle]

"There's a noticeable difference between trying to change some low-order rule like scouts can't sponsor a hunting trip and trying to get BSA to formally admit open and active homosexuals and professed atheists."

 

The difference I see is that the option with the firearms subjects boys to a significant risk.

[Trevorum]

"Well, hello Billy! I see you've just earned your Arrow of Light award and have graduated from Webelos. That's great! I'm glad you want to join our troop. You'll have a lot of fun in Boy Scouts.

 

Now before I can sign your application, I just have a few questions for you. Standard stuff, really. First, do you believe in any sort of god or gods? You do? That's great! Next, are you a homosexual? What's that? Well, homosexual means you "like" boys more than girls. What's that, you're only 10 years old and don't really like girls at all? Hmmm... let me see if I can explain this. Boy Scouts won't admit boys who like other boys more than they like girls. No, we aren't supposed to dislike each other, just not like each other too much. It's hard to explain. Tell you what, I'll just sign your application now and if you ever start liking boys more than girls, you just tell me and I'll kick you out then, OK?"

 

 

(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

[LongHaul]

Tev!!! Is that how homosexuals handle the application for membership discussion? I'm really surprised. My question was directed to Merlyn but I'll ask you also; What is the official policy for accepting new youth members or recruiting youth members with regard to discovering whether these "candidates" for membership meet the moral or religious criteria? The official policy, not your twist or opinion or it.

LH

[Trevorum]

 

LH, I have no idea. Some "official" BSA policies seem to be hard to track down in print and even harder to interpret. If you find out, let us all know.

[packsaddle]

LongHaul, as I understand it, if they sign the form...that's that.

If no other evidence ever surfaces, then BSA has no basis for any action except that they theoretically have the right to kick anyone out for any or no particular reason. No volunteer leader, as far as I know, has the authority to search out people who might not qualify as members. BSA doesn't actively hunt down those who don't tell and volunteers ought to have better things to do with their time as well.

To me this is a major logical flaw to the policy. DADT is the practical (and unavoidable) outcome of the policy. I think the top brass is smart enough to realize this and also to realize there is no use in worrying about something they can't control.

[HiLo]

But surely the existence of those rules means there are plenty of people who would like to control those areas.

[Beavah]

To me this is a major logical flaw to the policy. DADT is the practical (and unavoidable) outcome of the policy. I think the top brass is smart enough to realize this and also to realize there is no use in worrying about something they can't control.

 

Nah, nuthin' illogical at all. And of course that's what the top brass realizes.

 

BSA has only taken action when things have become a public issue.

 

 

[Gonzo1]

I think it has to be more blatant.

If two adult men kiss each other good night, that's a problem.

If a boy scout refuses to say the Pledge of Allegiance or Oath and Law because of regerences to God, that's a problem.

If someone refuses to say grace because he says he doesn't believe in God, that's a problem.

If some one "outs" himself or herself, that's a problem.

 

It's not about hunting people down, they sign the application, for youth, the parent signs, everybody knows what is expected.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

"Everybody knows"? I don't think so. Just googling places, I still see plenty of people who didn't know and are genuinely surprised that the BSA doesn't allow gays or atheists, and the fact that their membership applications don't spell this out doesn't help either.

[LongHaul]

Please Merlyn where have these people been living in a cave? They are evidentally somewhere they can be "googled" but are unaware of the BSA positions. Are you refering to people that have no interest or knowledge of our program or people that sought membership only to find out that even though they are familiar with Scouting being a youth program they were unfamiliar with anything else about it?

LH

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

LongHaul, do you know how many people don't know that the earth travels around the sun? I think it's very dangerous to assume everyone knows the BSA's membership requirements, especially the ones that aren't listed.

[acco40]

LongHaul or anyone else - I present to you this challenge. Show me on a BSA application or any other official BSA document that states that avowed homosexuals do not qualify for membership. I'm not talking about legal briefs, third party web sites, BSA press releases, etc. I'm talking about the "contract" that is signed - the BSA application itself.

 

It is not there. So why do you act surprised when someone is surprised when they are told the BSA doesn't allow homosexuals?

 

Let's see - possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth - hmm. I guess. I believe I'm a "moral" guy. The applicant must be the correct age - check, subscribe to the precepts of the Declaration of Religious Principle - well let's see - recognize an obligation to God the religious element in the BSA training - okay, I do, check. The home and organization or group with which the Scout or Scouter is connected shall give definite attention to religious life - okay, check; abide by the Scout Oath or Promise, and the Scout Law - yeah, I do - checkmate.

 

I must be good to go.

 

What? Somebody now tells me that as a God fearing, celibate, homosexual male, I don't qualify. I don't remember seeing that as a requirement.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Lisabob]

Gotta agree with Merlyn there, LH. Go to any cub round up night and start asking the parents of all those squirmy little 6-10 year olds what they know about BSA membership policies. Or, just sit in the back of the room and listen to the Cub Master or whoever doing their spiel about joining. In the years I've been involved helping packs run round ups, never once have I heard any pack make reference to the DRP (which I'm fairly certain most of them neither know, nor care, much about). And in the years I have helped my DE and other district professionals run round-up training, I've never once heard them bring it up either.

 

These policies are only a big deal among people like us on this board, and probably among people who unexpectedly find themselves on the wrong side of those policies. In everyday unit-level scouting, these policies are almost never discussed among leaders, let alone among the more general parent population.

 

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

"... those squirmy little 6-10 year olds ..."

 

This vivid image proves to me that Lisabob has been there and knows what she's talking about.

[LongHaul]

Merlyn, your post >>Just googling places, I still see plenty of people who didn't know and are genuinely surprised that the BSA doesn't allow gays or atheists, and the fact that their membership applications don't spell this out doesn't help either.