Do you agree 100% with BSA policies?

[BrentAllen]

pack,

Sorry my "simpleminded" question caused you so much distress. I never said the BSA had any issue about whether or not you believed Satan was real or a myth. It was you who stated everyone should know that Lucifer/Satan was a myth - a statement I find pretty incredible, considering somewhere around 70% of the population consider themselves Christian.

 

I am curious, though. You say Jesus was not a myth, but Satan is. We read in the Bible that Jesus was tempted by Satan for 40 days. How do you know or decide which parts of this and other parts of the Bible are true and which are myths?

 

Another simpleminded question, but which is sure to cause much consternation:

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

[packsaddle]

Last question first: I don't know. I am aware of the pro- and con- arguments. Yawn. What does it matter to you? You will believe what you choose.

Ahem, I am also aware that this amounts to a 'no' to really, really true believers, or so I've been told by people who informed me they are "really, really true believers". Don't stand too close...lightning, you know.

On the other hand, we could use the rain. Sorry, off topic.

 

Next, still working backwards (appropriate, no?): Oh, I just toss a coin, or maybe raise an ax over my son's neck hoping I'll receive divine inspiration or something. I don't (any more) often think about what is or isn't true in the Bible. I do consider much of it to be myth. You know, the stuff about coming back to life, the afterlife, the rapture (oops, that already happened), the Noachian flood, transubstantiation, etc.

 

Regarding Jesus and the temptation: I am tempted by mint/chocolate chip ice cream. MCCIC is real - but tends to have a short half-life in my presence.

I have no idea what really happened to Jesus, but I could just as easily believe that he got into some ergot-laden grain or maybe did some 'shrooms. Maybe he was shacked up with the neighbor girl in some hut surrounded by sheep and he needed a cover story. Maybe he was a victim of alien abduction and they looked like Satan. And are we sure it wasn't 39.4 days or maybe 40.7? H'mmm, nah, better not go there...Given his surroundings at the time, I am certain he was 'tempted' by many things...why the need for Lucifer? Like I wrote, I don't know, maybe it is just a better story that way.

(that alien abduction thing was a good one, though, right?)

 

Next: OK, if you read what I wrote carefully, it says "should" know, not "do" know. If you think Christians can't be Christians unless they believe in Satan, I'd say they have some common ground with Satanists. Come to think of it, while I am the one who rejects Satan, reducing Old Hobs to cartoon-character status, you seem to be obsessed with Satan's reality. It seems to be very important...I wonder....

[BrentAllen]

I wouldn't say obessed, but I believe I feel Satan tugging at my sleeve from time to time. I'm beginning to understand your difficulty in understanding the concept of sin.

 

I just find it very interesting that you feel very free to tell everyone what they "should" believe, but yet you are very reluctant to discuss what you actually believe.

[LongHaul]

No,  I believe the modern day Bible is a compilation created by the hand of man under the direction of Constantine. Created in 325 it sought to create a unified image of Jesus. This was accomplished by eliminating all references that did not conform to the beliefs of Alexander of Alexandria and his followers. While the "Old Testament" changed very little it still was not left as it is found in Jewish scripture.

 Do I believe living according to the "teachings of Jesus" as they are related in the Bible is a positive thing? Yes

LH

[packsaddle]

LongHaul, You must have channeled part of the section I deleted from that response, Thanks.

 

Brent, I have a comfortable grasp of right and wrong. Sin, is something else and indeed I have a poor grasp of that concept. If you think you understand where I don't, I'm glad for you.

 

I hope that when I say 'should', there is a logical argument supporting the assertion. If not, I hope someone can show me the error. And I am comfortable that you are there to provide that service, if needed.

Likewise, if anyone can demonstrate that any of my myths are actually real, I'll be delighted.

 

As for that sleeve thing, I haven't been in your neighborhood for many months. That would more likely be the spirit of Cynthia M or something like that.

[HiLo]

Packsaddle wrote:

 

"I couldn't begin to make any sweeping statement for all the ideas about 'God'...only my own"

 

It may interest you all to know that an Australian Scout swears to "...do my duty to MY god...." It's a personal thing. It's not meant to be prescribed by another person or organisation. Following the other Scout Laws will make us tolerant of others' beliefs, including non-belief.

[Joni4TA]

haha - Holy Cow! This thread went from "do you agree 100% with BSA policies?" to debate on whether or not Jesus, Lucifer or God exists or are all myths, or whatever! Yikes!

 

I am totally not getting into that latter hijack, but to the first part, I agree with Gonzo1 - I may not agree with every single BSA policy 100%, but when I signed that application for membership, I agreed to SUPPORT the policies of the BSA no less than 100%.

 

When there's a BSA policy that bothers me "THAT MUCH", that I think it should change - that's the day I cease being a member. It's not right for me to try and convince an entire PRIVATE organization to change their policies.

 

I have a choice to be part of the organization and support it whole-heartedly - or ....... not....

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

How could any rule of an organization ever change if all members have to agree with them as written, and any amount of disagreement results in loss of membership? That's an absurd way to operate.

[LongHaul]

Yes Merlyn that would be an obsurd way to operate and it's a good thing BSA doesn't.

Joni4TA, I don't know where you got your adult application but it must have contained a typo. It should have asked that you agree to COMPLY with...... big difference between comply and support. Those things that we agreed to comply with change all the time. These things don't change if everyone agrees with the original, therefore, dissagreement with the rules as written is not necessarily cause for exspulsion. We can comply without agreement, we can disagree without being noncompliant. We can seek to change without being subversive.

LH

[onehouraweekmy]

There's a noticeable difference between trying to change some low-order rule like scouts can't sponsor a hunting trip and trying to get BSA to formally admit open and active homosexuals and professed atheists.

 

The problem with some of the agitators is that they refuse to be content with the reasonable modus vivendi pursued by BSA--essentially don't ask don't tell on homosexuality and atheism-- and want BSA to profess the wonderfulness of atheism and homosexuality. There's a big difference between BSA tolerating atheists and homosexuals who don't ring a bell about it or try to recruit boys to their viewpoints, and christening homosexuality as morally straight behavior and atheism as just as good belief in a God of some kind.

 

By all means, tinker with the small rules. But when you try to re-fashion the underlying philosophy of the organization... it's time to go find some other group that suits you. Leave the rest of us alone to enjoy BSA as it is.

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Onehouraweekmy, as far as I can tell from the BSA's official websites, there is no official don't ask, don't tell policy in operation. Anyone doing so would be in violation of the BSA's rules on gays and atheists. So are you advocating that people disregard official BSA policy by operating under their own DADT policy?

[LongHaul]

Merlyn do you know where the official "ask" policy is documented? If I'm not specifically told to "ask" why should I be expected to "know". If I chose to NOT act upon something I "suspect" how is that adopting my own DADT policy?

LH

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

onehouraweekmy appears to be saying that gays & atheists CAN join under a DADT policy, but I can't find one. No, there's no "ask" policy that I know of, but that doesn't imply that there is an official DADT policy, either.

[Gonzo1]

Brace yourselves everyone, I actually agree with Merlyn, at least as far as DADT.

 

Long Haul,

You may be committing an act of omission by not asking. There is no DADT policy, rule or procedure. The scout and adult agree to live by the Scout Oath and Scout Law. Merlyn, you can join too, but you have to believe in God (and can't be a homosexual and as andult pass a background check). Your God, not my God. I don't care what religion a person is or if the person attends church (or other place of worship) regularly or not.

 

Merlyn, it's not a case of **if all members have to agree with them as written** but rather I may not like the rule, but I can abide by it. Two example, no one can ride in the backs of pick up truck because there are no seats and no seat belts and Women are now allowed to be scoutmasters. Forget my personal view, some people think it's OK to let kids ride for short distances in the backs of truck and some think it's OK to have female SM's. Not trying to spool anyone up, these are just two examples.

 

[LongHaul]

Well, as you see it, what is the official policy for accepting new youth members or recruiting youth members with reguard to discovering whether these "candidates" for membership meet the moral or religious criteria?

LH