Pack Com. meeting question

[Sparkie]

When your Com. Chmn. cannot attend the meeting who takes their place? My Com. Chmn. has sent his wife, who is a den leader (but never attends com. meetings). I didn't mind it the first time (it's happened 2x so far) but i think he's about to have her do it again next month. Seeing as she normally doesn't attend, i have concerns about this.

 

I know the Cubmaster (that's me) shouldn't run the meeting, but i think the Asst. Cubmaster would be the next logical person to fill in.

 

Thanx for your help!

Sparkie

[CubsRgr8]

Here's my recommendation: committee chair, asst. committee chair, COR, committee member (who is not a den leader), asst. cubmaster, cubmaster, then last a den leader. In any event, never a person who is related to the committee chair, the COR or the Cubmaster.

[scoutldr]

If I remember my training correctly, Den Leaders (whether married to the CC or not) are NOT members of the Pack Committee and should not be called upon to chair the meetings. If they attend Committee meetings at all, they should not have a vote. One of the other committee members should be designated as "Acting Chairman" for that meeting, or the meeting rescheduled.

[Scoutmaster Ron]

I agree it should be anohter committee member not the wife

[acco40]

I was once married to a Committee Chair (sounds like the title of a book, and no my marriage did not end, she ended her tour of duty as CC). I was a den leader. Sometimes she could not attend the Committee meeting and would have me bring the agenda that she made. I would present the agenda but would not exactly chair the meeting in my eyes, but maybe it looked like I did in others eyes. Anyway, I definitely never assigned tasks, made decisions, etc.

 

The Cubmaster, Asst. Cubmaster, Den Leaders, Asst. Den Leaders ARE NOT memebers of the Pack Committee (similarly in Troop for SM and ASMs) but are members of the Pack leadership. I like the idea of having an Asst. CC for both Packs & Troops but have been unsuccessful convincing others of their worth.

[Twocubdad]

I don't think it matters. Anyone with a good understanding of what needs to be covered is fine. I think the Cubmaster is the logical choice.

 

When I first became involved with our pack, we had a similar situation with our CC. Attended half the meetings, hadn't a clue what was happening in the others. Generally, whether he was there or not, either myself or one of the other den leaders, would scribble out an agenda on the blackboard. Being a group of reasonable adults, we worked through the agenda and went home. The lack of an official chairman didn't make much difference to us.

 

My understanding of a pack committee (and troop committee, for that matter) is that it is not a decision-making body, but a group of people who work on their assigned tasks independently and come together only to report their progress, plan and coordinate with others as necessary. Looking at it from that approach, a chairman isn't really needed to run the meetings. Of course, the CC has responsibilities other than running the meetings, so I'm not saying the pack can do without a chairman completely.

 

While we are here, I'd like to put to rest the notion that Cubmasters and Den Leaders are not part of the pack committee and should not attend the committee meetings. Actually, the Cub Scout Leader Book doesn't talk about "pack committee meetings," rather it talks about "pack leader meetings" and specifically says that all adult den and pack leaders should attend (page 24-4). It also says one of the Cubmaster's job responsibilities is to help the committee chair conduct the monthly meetings.

 

The whole purpose of the pack committee is to facilitate and support the delivery of the Cub Scout program. The Cubmaster and den leaders are the people delivering the program to the boys. Why in the world would you keep the two separate?

 

 

[mk9750]

TwoCub:

 

Glad you said something, because I wanted to but wasn't sure I was right.

 

In Boy Scouts, boys lead the Troop, and the committee exists only to support the program. It makes sense that the adult committee be separate from the program, so SM and ASMs are not official members of the committee.

 

But in a Cub Pack, the adults run the program. The adults that run the program are the CC, the CM, and the Den Leaders, along with anyone else who is needed to accomplish the task. In my limited experience (1 pack), registered leaders who are not CM , ACM, or DL, would include only the CC and the COR. Makes for a quick, but ineffective meeting.

 

Mark

[acco40]

"Makes for a quick, but ineffective meeting." Is this really what you meant to post?

 

I believe some are confusing Pack leadership meetings and Pack Committee meetings. Den leaders, CM, ADL etc. are not committee members and do not need to attend committee meetings. They are pack leaders and should attend Pack Leadership meetings. Also, such positions as Treasurer, Public Relations, Registrar, Secretary, etc. should be registered Scouters in my book. They alway were in Packs that I was affilitated with.

 

I believe the Cubmaster role is much understood. He/she does not "run the program." He/she does plan the Pack and den programs with input and help from the den leaders. The CM's biggest task is to emcee the pack meetings. It is my experience that most underestimate the responsibilities of the CC and overestimate the responsibilities of the CM.

 

FYI:

 

 

Every Pack is Under the Supervision of A Pack Committee

 

Committee Consists of a Minimum of Three Qualified U.S. Citizens* of Good Character & 21 years or older

 

Members Selected by the Chartered Organization and Registered as Adult Leaders of BSA

 

Committee Functions:

 

Ensure That the Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts Receive a Year-Round Quality Program

 

Make Recommendations to the Chartered Organization for Final Approval of Pack Leadership

 

Recruit the Cubmaster and One or More Assistant Cubmasters

 

Committee Chair responsibilities:

Cubmasters Chief Adviser

Maintain Close Relationship with Chartered Organization

 

Supervise Pack Committee Operation

 

Assign Duties to, and Training Committee Members

 

Conduct Annual Pack Program Planning Conference

 

Approve Bills Before Payment by Pack Treasurer

 

Ask the Committee to Assist with Recommendations For Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster(s), Den Leader Coaches, Webelos Den Leaders and Den Leaders, as needed

 

Supervise Finances and Equipment

 

Help Stimulate the Interest of Parents Through Proper Programming

 

* Requirement for US citizenship can be waived.

 

Please note that Cub Scouts is a year round program and does not hibernate in the summer!

(This message has been edited by acco40)(This message has been edited by acco40)

[mk9750]

Acco40:

 

Yes, I typed what I meant.

 

If the Pack committee meeting only included the CC and the COR, then it would be a quick but ineffective meeting.

 

I don't speak from official knowledge, but from what I remember I was told in basic training, and how the one pack with which I was affiliated ran: There were not two leadership bodies, as you describe. The adult committee consisted of all registered adults, including CM, DLs and all related positions. Having two groups seems awfully difficult to coordinate, and I can't imagine any reason for it. Having one provides all who have leadership responsiblities in the Pack the opportunity to communicate directly with one another.

 

I do agree with you about the role of the Cubmaster usually being overstated. When I was Cubmaster, it was easy to be what I understood the Cubmaster to be, the master of ceremonies at Pack events. Our CC was remarkably capable of doing far more than even I thought possible. I often commented how much credit I got for the work she did. I only got it because I was the guy in front of the meeting. But she did practically ALL the work.

 

To get back to the original point, in my experience (again, only one Pack), a committee that excluded CM and DLs would have included only only CC and COR (and our COR never once came to a committee meeting, even though invited all the time). Others who helped (popcorn Kernel, pinewood derby coordinator), were either already DLs or they didn't register. Oops, I did forget treasurer, who also was registered and was on the committee.

 

I think the confusion might be on your part. I think you might be confusing the make up of a Pack committee with that of a Troop committee. Because the way you describe your vision of a Pack committee is exactly what I think is the correct way to address the adult roles in a Troop. If I am wrong, I am sorry.

 

Mark

[Twocubdad]

Acco, you are right about the responisbilities of the CC and CM and the relationship between the two. I equate the two to being Chairman of the Board and CEO of a corporation.

 

What I don't agree with is keeping the den leaders separate from the pack committee. No, the den leaders don't need to sit and watch the treasurer and I pay bills, but we don't do that at committee meetings anyway. We do, however, plan upcoming pack meetings and special events. Input from the den leaders regarding these events is very important. They are, after all, the people with the training, knowledge of the program and experience with the boys. They are also the people primarily responsible for implementing the programs.

 

But I am willing to lump that under the heading of "What Works Best for Our Pack" -- your results may vary, as they say. But I don't believe it is accurate to say that one way is right or wrong. Other that the couple of paragraphs I cited above, I don't see anything in the Cub Scout literature demanding that pack business must be conducted one way or the other. If you have a reference I don't, please let me know.

[scoutmom]

If the Cubmaster, Assistant Cubmaster, and Den Leaders didn't come to our Committee meetings, they wouldn't exist. In a perfect world, Committee and Leaders would be separate, but for us,this is how we make sure we are delivering the best program we can. More parental participation is desired, but hard to come by.

[sctmom]

Please go back up and read what Twocubdad quoted from the Cub Scout Leader Handbook. Maybe it used to be different, but not now. There is ONE adult leader meeting which includes committee members, cubmaster, and den leaders.

 

[ScoutNut]

From the on-line Fast Start Training for Pack Committee - "The pack committee meets as part of the monthly pack leaders' meeting."

 

In Cub Scouts there is only 1 meeting for everybody, including all parents if they want to show up! It should also be held every month.

 

In our Pack Committee meetings we review how the last Pack meeting went. What we think worked & what we would change. We talk about the next 2 months Pack meetings to sort out what we are doing. Any info that needs to go to the boys is given to the Den Leaders at this time. Extra Pack-wide activities/outings for the next couple of months are discussed. Finances are checked and discussed. Advancement person is given a heads up on any badges/awards/segments that the dens are working on and plan to have finished by the next Pack meeting.

 

I can't see meeting less than once a month. There is to much going on that everyone needs to keep up with! If anyone misses the meeting they try to make sure their info goes in with someone. After, we make sure someone calls and gives them the scoop on what went on.

 

I don't much care who is married to whom & who is doing what job at the meetings. The main thing is that we get the job done. Together.(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[Bob White]

With the release of the NEW Cub Leader manual late in 2000, the previously recommended method of two committees was changed to a combined committee.

 

It caught me by surprise too.

 

BW

[Joni4TA]

In our Pack, any registered leaders as well as any parents that want to, go to Roundtable. We have a Committee/Den Leader/CubMaster, Asst. CubMaster/Parent meeting the following week. I am the Advancement Chr. for our Pack.

 

I'll tell ya, it doesn't matter what we call the title of the meeting here at this Pack, it's always the same 6 people showing up. The CubMaster used to decide on everything that normally the Pack Committee would decide, and is married to the Treasurer. **NOT GOOD as we now have NO MONEY in the Pack's account** The CubMaster is also a Den Leader, the Asst. CubMaster is a Den Leader in one den and an Asst. Leader in another and up until I showed up the Treasurer did the advancements, too! But of course NO ONE kept ANY advancement records and our financial records are a mess, too... MIA at this point.... talk about the IMperfect Pack world.... I am slowly (with the help of our Secretary and Committee Chr.) getting this Pack back on track!

NOTE: keep in mind this is a Military pack and our leaders leave every three years to go to another duty station.... it only takes one disorganized leader/Committee and another one to follow for the entire Pack to be screwed up for the next 6 years!

 

Of course in other Packs I have been involved in, there was the District Meeting at the beg. of the month, the Roundtable the 2cnd week of the month, then the Pack Committee would meet the 3rd week of the month (Treasurer, Advance. Chr., CubMaster, Committee Chair, Secretary, Fundraising Chr., Outdoor Activity Chr.) **Yeah we had a large Pack and ample Leaders**

And it was the Committee, along with CubMaster's REQUESTS that decided on how the Pack was run, what we spent money on and what our activities would be.

 

Cubs aren't Boy Scouts and because I am also a Troop Committee member I know the units are run entirely different from each other.

 

If your Comm. Chr. can't attend a meeting and at least sends some type of agenda with SOMEONE, unless there is some major lack of communication between the Comm. Chr., the rest of your Comm. members, and you, the CubMaster I wouldn't worry about it but I might speak to your Comm. Chair about their involvement level and if perhaps the meeting schedule needed to be changed so that he/she could be present from now on?

 

Just my two cents... sorry for the long post!