Just go join Spiral Scouts

[Lisabob]

Ugh, folks, if you would like to start making analogies to Hitler or if you want to argue about the meaning of the first amendment, or whatever other polemical debate you want to engage in, I not-so-subtly request that you go start your own thread instead of tromping through this one.

 

In the meantime, I'd like to ask Kadiera to tell us more about SpiralScouts. For example, I'm curious about the nature of the program for your older members (SpiralScouts and Pathfinders). Is this an outdoor/camping oriented program, similar to what people likely think of when they think of Boy Scouts?

 

I'm also curious about membership. About how many members do you think you have? And while I notice that your website says that members of all different faiths are welcome, I'm curious to know whether that includes atheists (which is, sorry to say, often the context Spiral Scouts are brought up in on this board).

 

 

[Gold Winger]

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[eolesen]

Volker, being friendly and changing the membership guidelines are mutually exclusive.

 

I know a troop who did several service projects which benefited a hospice which primarily served gay men and drug addicts in the terminal stages of AIDS.

 

Providing service to others and being friendly doesn't mean you have to put your own beliefs aside.

 

"America ain't what it used to be. "

 

Nope. It ain't. I'll posit that it was a much better place to live when the freedom of religion was actually respected.

 

Instead, it's become "freedom from religion" for the past 15 to 20 years, and now, sex, drugs, and crime are put up on a pedestal instead of more traditional/conservative values.

 

Movies/shows like "The Sopranos" and "American Gangster" are entertaining, but while the bad guys usually get it in the end, they do so only after a lot of really bad behavior has been glorified...

 

TV shows in the 70's could barely say "crap" and get away with it. Watch "The Simpsons" or even "ER" and you'll hear language which would have never been permitted to air.

 

 

 

 

Then again, looking at the backlog of people trying to get resident visas, we must be doing something right...

 

Likewise with BSA -- if the program was so darn evil, you wouldn't have as many people trying to get the membership standards relaxed.

[Gold Winger]

Exactly.

[GernBlansten]

America, Love it or Leave it!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

eolesen writes:

Volker, being friendly and changing the membership guidelines are mutually exclusive.

 

So when the BSA changed the membership guidelines to allow female scoutmasters, that was not "friendly"? When the BSA allowed younger kids to become cub scouts that wasn't friendly?

[scoutmomma]

What religions does the BSA discriminate against?

 

Unitarian Universalists.

 

Scoutmomma

[Gold Winger]

Unitarians are welcome in the BSA, it is just that their "religious" medal isn't recognized by BSA and so cannot be worn on the uniform.

 

I'm not sure that Unitarianism is really a religion. All the Unitarians that I know tell me that Unitarian doctrine allows them to believe whatever they want including being an atheist. One of the funadmentals of a religion is that the adherents believe pretty much the same thing. However, Unitarians say that you can believe that life is a bowl of jell-o and I can believe that we live on the back on an ant. That's not a religion, that's a group of people with differing beliefs that just want to hang out together and get a tax break.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

I get it GW,

All religions are equal in the BSA, just some religions are more equal.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Gold Winger writes:

One of the funadmentals of a religion is that the adherents believe pretty much the same thing.

 

That leaves out... oh, pretty much all of them.

[scoutmomma]

Unitarians are welcome in the BSA, it is just that their "religious" medal isn't recognized by BSA and so cannot be worn on the uniform.

 

I don't think many Unitarian Universalists feel all that welcome when their church's religious emblem has been disallowed. The Unitarian Universalist Scouters' Association emblem, I understand, is accepted by BSA but not by UUA. Again, not a particularly welcoming feeling ensues.

 

I'm not sure that Unitarianism is really a religion. All the Unitarians that I know tell me that Unitarian doctrine allows them to believe whatever they want including being an atheist.

 

Unitarian Universalism is indeed a religion, but it does not have a "doctrine," and saying Unitarians can believe "whatever they want" is a vast oversimplification.

 

From the UUA website: "If you're searching for a religious home that is guided by a quest for truth and meaning, not by a set creed or dogma, we invite you to discover Unitarian Universalism. We are a caring, openminded religious community that encourages you to seek your own spiritual path. Unitarian Universalist congregations are places where people gather to nurture their spirits and put their faith into action by helping to make our communitiesand the worlda better place.

 

And from elsewhere on the UUA website:

 

"There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

 

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part."

 

One of the funadmentals of a religion is that the adherents believe pretty much the same thing. However, Unitarians say that you can believe that life is a bowl of jell-o and I can believe that we live on the back on an ant. That's not a religion, that's a group of people with differing beliefs that just want to hang out together and get a tax break.

 

Not a very polite statement, and more than a little insulting.

 

Scoutmomma

 

[Gold Winger]

"Unitarian Universalism is indeed a religion, but it does not have a "doctrine," and saying Unitarians can believe "whatever they want" is a vast oversimplification."

 

That's what my Unitarian friends tell me.

 

"where people gather to nurture their spirits and put their faith into action "

 

Sounds good but faith isn't required.

 

"Not a very polite statement, and more than a little insulting"

 

Ah, you must be one of those "unwelcome" unitarians.

[Gold Winger]

"Unitarian Universalism is indeed a religion, but it does not have a "doctrine," and saying Unitarians can believe "whatever they want" is a vast oversimplification."

 

That's what my Unitarian friends tell me.

 

"where people gather to nurture their spirits and put their faith into action "

 

Sounds good but faith isn't required.

 

"Not a very polite statement, and more than a little insulting"

 

Ah, you must be one of those "unwelcome" unitarians.

[Slouchhat]

@Goldwinger:

Dressing up as old Adolf or promoting the return of the Nazi party is a Federal offence here.

It has nothing to do with some club bylaws or regulations. It is, simply spoken, forbidden by law.

 

@CA Scouter:

Of course, Im using a wide brush here. Most BSA members probably know that somethings not right but they are not effected by that and for them most, if not all, is well. They probably comfort themselves with theres always something or I cant change it anyway.

 

@eolesen:

Most people probably dont find the actual scouting program bad at all. However, we should try to separate the actual scouting part from politics and doctrines. It seems like the BSA is a dictatorship. You sign on and follow the lead or you leave the organisation. There doesnt seem to be any alternative. The almighty entity BSA makes a decision (based on whatever knowledge or information) and the membership nods and says yes.

And you are absolutely sure that this lemming-like approach is right? Are these the values which you want your kids to learn? Do it like the ostrich and stick your head into the sand.