Just go join Spiral Scouts

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Gold Winger, the entire quote I was responding to was this:

"I believe by the stances and aims/missions of each organization one can imply; the organization for Advancement of Colored People would probably not award a 100% Caucasian student a scholarship. "

 

By "wrong", I was referring to joni4TA's assumption that it's valid to assume things from the "stances and aims/missions of each organization".

 

Now, the NAACP scholarship is handled through the UNCF:

http://www.naacp.org/about/resources/brochures/education_scholarship_application.pdf

...

 

All applications must include the required materials. The UNCF/NAACP will not be responsible for

making duplicate copies of applications and/or required materials. If required materials are not included

with each separate application, your application will be considered incomplete.

All incomplete applications will be disqualified.

 

Send to:

The United Negro College Fund

Scholarships & Grants Administration

8260 Willow Oaks Corporate Drive

Fairfax, VA 22031

ATTN: Kimberly Hall

Phone: 703.205.3400

www.uncf.org

 

 

And the UNCF says this:

http://www.uncf.org/aboutus/faqs.asp

Q: Does UNCF only support African American education?

A: UNCF was founded to address the funding inequities regarding educational resources for African Americans. UNCF believes in higher education opportunities for all Americans, however. Though most funding supports African American students, UNCF member schools do not discriminate and UNCF administered scholarships are open to all ethnic groups.

 

Now, the NAACP scholarship requirements don't list race, and it appears that the NAACP scholarship is one of the UNCF's administered scholarships, which explicitly says it's open to all ethnic groups.

[eolesen]

Sorry, but this whole line of discussion about the NAACP giving scholarships to a poor white kid is giving me flashbacks of U.N. Jefferson being asked to approve a charter for a Lambda Lambda Lambda chapter at Adams College....

 

Sure, it could happen, but would it?...

[evmori]

"That homosexuality is immoral is not "I don't like your pants." It's a fundamentally held belief."

 

I believe this!

 

And that scholarship might not have any race requirements but it sure sounds like it is gender specific!

 

Ed Mori

1 PEter 4:10

[Lisabob]

ARGH! Would you guys just knock it off!? We get it, ok, that some people on this board don't care for each other. Those people, I'm sorry, are acting like bratty children engaged in an incessant war of "I know you are, but what am I" and it is about as convincing as that too. Just give it a rest already, would ya?

[Slouchhat]

GW, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

You are hanging on to BSA's bigotry like the KKK to their racism.

 

 

[Slouchhat]

Easy enough: BSA is a monoculture.

Monocultures sooner or later will not bear fruit anymore.

BSA might be the biggest organisation of its kind in the US today, but the way it is run, it will, in the long shot, fail.

You may not notice it, you may even condone or support the obvious bigotry, but it is not what the old man had in mind and what he wrote about.

BSA's big advantage is its quasi-monopoly in the USA. This has nothing to do with the quality of the program or anything. This has something to do with the fact that a large crowd attracts more people than a small crowd.

That's it. That's all it is.

[evmori]

Let's take a step back.

 

Even the scholarship titled "THE HUBERTUS W.V. WILLEMS SCHOLARSHIP FOR MALE STUDENTS" doesn't list sex as a criterion.

 

Oops, it does say "male" in the section that lists the possible majors.

 

So there might no be any race requirement but there sure seems to be gender discrimination going on. But that must be OK. Or is it?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Slouchhat]

You're missing the point.

BSA ain't a scholarship for which you need to apply, it is like a club you can join, pay your dues, etc.

You're talking about different things here.

By the way, the BSA website doesn't even say what type of organisation BSA is. In fact, it doesn't say a lot about many important things.

 

 

[Beavah]

Nah, Slouchhat, I think you're bein' a bit too broad, eh?

 

Certainly the "corporate scouting" model in da U.S. is different than in Germany (and all the rest of the world). To a big extent it creates a single "brand identity" and uniformity that's far stricter than havin' a mix of scout associations like your native land.

 

But it ain't the same as a monoculture. Not by a long shot. In fact, most other "clubs" are far, far more "monocultural" than the BSA.

 

I think human cultures (as opposed to biological ones) can benefit from limited diversity. That brings variety and perspective. I think human cultures also break down in the fact of too much diversity, which results in conflict and separation.

 

German culture is far more "monocultural" and monoracial than the U.S., and you have your struggles with former East Germans, Islamic immigrants, & former Eastern Europe immigrants, do you not? Maybe a bit better than France, eh? But not that much.

 

Not everything is bigotry. Some things are real differences in viewpoints and approach.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

>>Monocultures sooner or later will not bear fruit anymore.

BSA might be the biggest organisation of its kind in the US today, but the way it is run, it will, in the long shot, fail.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes, quoting me in part:

Let's take a step back.

 

Even the scholarship titled "THE HUBERTUS W.V. WILLEMS SCHOLARSHIP FOR MALE STUDENTS" doesn't list sex as a criterion.

 

Oops, it does say "male" in the section that lists the possible majors.

 

So there might no be any race requirement but there sure seems to be gender discrimination going on. But that must be OK. Or is it?

 

Who was arguing whether it was OK or not? I was pointing out that the scholarships did not list race as a criterion.

 

I think this whole tangent is a good example of why clear requirements are a good idea. The BSA still does not list 'heterosexual' as a requirement anywhere. Their DRP can easily be interpreted to exclude polytheists as well as atheists, but polytheists are apparently OK, at least for now. Why doesn't the BSA spell out their membership requirements on their membership forms? They have no problem listing sex and age requirements.

[packsaddle]

Merlyn, in the other thread I just wrote almost the same thing regarding the application. I agree.

If these membership criteria are so important that people are excluded on their basis, state these membership criteria clearly and prominently on the application.

[Slouchhat]

Eagledad wrote: "I guess, but after continuing success for 100 years, what do you consider failure?"

 

What's your point?

We're just ten years short of 100, doing things very differently and scouting is very successful in this country without kicking people out because of their sexual orientation, etc.

 

Excluding somebody can only be the last step if everything else which has been tried before, has failed.

So what has been done to integrate homosexuals in BSA before it was decided to exclude them?

What is the exact negative effect homosexuals are having on the BSA and their program?

But please, no boulevard journalism a la "My son is going to turn gay if there are homosexuals in BSA"

[Gold Winger]

The difference is that we have a different set of values over here than you do. I find it interesting how no one like the Yanks telling them how to live their lives but they all love to tell us what to do.

[Slouchhat]

Great.

So: what exactly are the American values regarding homosexuals?

What exactly are the American values regarding female scout leaders?

 

I'm glad to see that behind all this there is a cut-and-dry codex universally accepted throughout the States.