the WOSM crisis

[Beavah]

As so many of us have said over and over, it's all about the kids.

 

Nah, not at those levels

 

Not to worry, Scouter&mom. The end result is that the WOSM Secretary General got fired, just the way the U.S. demanded. While we certainly didn't make many friends by the way we handled it, we got what we wanted at least for the short term.

 

Expect the BSA to reinstate most funding and to remain a WOSM member, and expect international activities to go on as planned. Just make sure that the adults participatin' are prepared to answer a few questions from their counterparts

 

Beavah

 

[BSACompass]

Having just attended the last WSJ in Chelmsford, I was very interested to learn of this WOSM crisis. I think we should be careful to point too many fingers at the BSA. Yes, we have a "national Scout Center" at Philmont, but it was donated to us by Waite Phllips and maintained entirely without WSB funds, so there is no parallel there. As far as the UN analogy, I concur. If you were to take some time to read Mr. Perry's October 17th letter and Google Picarquin, you would see that this expense was to be paid for by the WSB, not the Chilean Scouting Movement, but would have made fewer funds available for Interamerican NSO's. Further, in Mr. Perry's letter, you could easily read that nearly 40% of all WSB direct funds DOES come from the US and does not include unrecorded gifts and supports to other struggling NSO's. Meanwhile, the WSB wants to build a $24M castle in Geneva - is that really where you want yout Friends of Scouting dollars (in part) to go to? Or shouldn't they really go to "help the kids" as some have suggested?

 

In my opinion, this is nothing more than another attempt to "Blame America First (or the BSA, as the case maybe)" and after attending the WSJ, it's getting a bit old - after watching 30,000 teenagers show such unsurpassed happiness for 12 days of "being there". For example, did you know that there were three tiers of pricing for the WSJ, with G-7's like the USA, UK, etc paying the most? Why, do you ask? So that when we were done with our camping equipment, ALL of it (emblazoned with the US Contingent logo) could be sent to a tier three country - so they could have camping equipment?

 

One of the young men in our troop has championed a project to help provide equipment to Scouts in Africa, specifically - Ethiopia, Swaziland and Zimbabwe. Many of the scouts who came to WSJ were having their FIRST camping experience (and what a great one - their smiles as the jamboree went on were contagious!) This is our role to help bring Scouting to struggling NSO's, not to build bureaucracies in Geneva.

 

Without question, the BSA is not sticking to its guns, not "showing its' cajones", it is living up to the Oath and Law and the essence of the WSJ motto, song and BP's dream - One World, One Promise. I know, I was there and I saw it with my own eyes (and through the eyes of my two sons). God Bless Scouting, the BSA and the USA for doing the right thing!

 

YIS, Brian M. Coleman, ASM

WSJ Troop 414, Western Region

Denver Area Council

 

[helper2]

Hi Scouts,

 

I have been reading through your posts and start to wonder if any of you have any idea what the "great BSA" has actually done?

Do you realize that BSA and the Scout Association of Sweden have actually attemped to destabilize the Scout World Organization?

A country like the USA, that is always presenting itself as a defender of democracy, has shown a completely different face here. BSA has used the power of money to bypass all democratic decision making bodies in the WOSM to get her way. Very un-Scoutlike.

 

Yes, BSA did win this short move. I hope you realize what enourmeous damage has been done to BSA's reputation and how this move is received by the Scouting world. Read the comments in othere fora and discover how people elsewhere react. See e.g.: http://savescouting.1sthost.org/wordpress/

or read the details at:

http://www.eduardomissoni.net/CV/worldscout/WOSMcrisis/crisisindex.html

 

Regardless of what criticism there is or might have been on the world organization, it does not justify in any way what BSA has just done. This is so fully against all principles of Scouting and BSA's own values, that is it really unthinkable BSA actually took this course of action.

 

Given the reaction of many Scout Associations around the world, it is very likely that the upcoming World Conference will impose sanctions on BSA. An rightfully so.

BSA ought to be deeply ashamed of herself.

 

Want to make it right? See if there is a way to put a new management in control of BSA, one that respects Scout values, other people's opinions and handles differences in the way a Scout would do. Up to you guys.

 

 

 

[scoutldr]

Welcome to our forum, helper2. It would be helpful if you told us a little about yourself, so we know in what context to take your comments.

 

I don't know about other countries, but the BSA is a private corporation. It never pretends to be a "democracy", any more than companies like General Motors or Microsoft. As volunteers, we are "customers" of the corporation, not really "members" as we are labeled, with a voice in the corporate decision-making. Our only real power as individuals with BSA is to quit supporting it with our dollars and time.

[frank10]

"it is very likely that the upcoming World Conference will impose sanctions on BSA. "

 

Does this mean they will stop taking our funds,oh no, I can feel my troop failing as I type.

[Gold Winger]

I'd like to read some background on this whole thing. Scouting, like many organizations, keeps its dirty laundry well hidden so all we can do is speculate about the real issues.

 

As for BSA's reputation, so what? I say the same when people say that the USA's reputation has suffered. I don't know that we've ever had a good reputation, people just like our money and our aid.

[ASM915]

helper2

 

There are always two ways of looking at a situation. For example:

 

Viewpoint 1)

My pad need some maintenance. There is problems with the water pressure at the tap. It would be easier to do a shampoo and rinse by sticking my head in the toilet and flushing. There is the broken window that allows the pad to have 7/24 365 year round AC. And the hole in the entry way. if my young lad gets to close, it might swallow him up. It wasn't like this tow years ago. The landlord just ignores us. I'll start putting the rent into escrow and hold it there until he handles our concerns.

 

Viewpoint 2)

Sorry son, you can't have that bike you have been asking for. And dear wife, next falls trip to the islands Will have to be put off. Those darn renters haven't paid their last two months rents.

 

 

Who knows. Maybe the BSA and Sweden noticed an issue. Maybe they took it to the appropriate committees at WSC and or WOSM. Maybe there was a GOOD OLE BOYS CLUB within these committees that tabled the concerns because the concerns interfered with the committees intended agenda.

 

Maybe BSA, Sweden, and a few other NCO's decide to withhold funds in an escrow to get the attention of the Good Ole Boys and the people above them and to get their concerns addressed.

 

The Good Ole Boys round up the wagons, send out letters about how the BSA, Sweden and their cronies coup will/is hurting World Scouting (and NSC or WOSM's pet project, that may also be hurting World Scouting, but this is purposefully not mentioned), to all the NSO's.

 

In you blog, out of all the letters you have posted from the SG, WSC and WOSM, I only noticed one correspondence that even discusses the issues in some vagueness. All the others are circular, not saying or revealing anything about the issues.

[scoutldr]

From what I have been able to glean, the WOSM is apparently spending millions on a new "World Scout Center" in Geneva, complete with hotel and conference center. The BSA found out about this and feels that our millions of dollars could be better used elsewhere, like for supporting Scouting in third world countries, but this decision was made unilaterally and without much discussion. Therefore the BSA is witholding our significant contribution to WOSM until changes are made in the leadership and governance policies to make them more transparent and participatory. Again, just my perception of what I read.

[eolesen]

That's my understanding of the crisis as well -- too much money was being spent on elaborate real estate to benefit the leadership side of scouting, and not enough being spent to promote scouting in developing countries.

 

If the outcome here is that WOSM's focus shifts back towards expanding the Scouting universe, I'm not sure how you can construe that as damage.

 

To borrow from the ultra-religious, "What would B-P do?"?

 

I'm pretty certain from my readings that he would not have approved spending money on a conference center and hotel in Geneva. Something like this can be built and be self-sustaining on its own.

[scoutldr]

I need to remove that little purple patch anyway...need to make room for more square knots. I can't afford to go to World Jamborees anyway.

 

[helper2]

Hi all,

 

At least we're getting a decent discussion here now. Please take a few moments to read through the documents that are available on the internet right now. And please do not make the same misstake as the BSA leadership: some of the issues discussed, notably the real-estate options, are internal WSC papers. Things that served to help a discussion, they are not decisions and some are really in an immature state. (Discussion about other options of the WSB building in Geneva have been going on for at least the past 15 years, considering various alternatives).

One of the WSC members is a BSA member who unfortunately could not recognize this and presents info as if the World Organization is overspending in the wrong things. Check for yourself in the WSC minutes on line and convince yourself.

 

Based on these and other misunderstandings BSA thought they had the right to use money to overthrow the Secretary General. Now this is interesting. The SG reports to the World Committee and takes orders from them. Your BSA board member is a part of that same WSC that approved all actions in the past. So who are you launching a rebellion against? Right, against decisions that were taken with consent of the same person who now launched this unfortunate situation. The SG simply being used as a scapegoat and the real guys who are critized are still in their seats.

 

What remains is that BSA thought it right to bypass the democratic decision making proces in WOSM and just simply push people in the way they did. This is what heavily upsets other Scout Associations. In the end, they may come up with a solution that does no longer rely on BSA and its money. People may simply not want it anymore, nor its so called "help". Scouts are after mutual respect and equality, discussing differences in a Scout like manner and handling it in a proper way. If we cannot give this example to the world, who can?

 

 

 

[emb021]

helper2

 

Truth is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.

 

All the stuff I've seen on-line is taken from the now former SG's side. You seem to think we should accept on faith that the BSA et al acted improperly, etc.

 

I've been involved in enough organizations to be a bit skeptical of all that. Is what the BSA & other done the right thing? Don't know. Was what the SG and other done the right thing? Don't know. We don't have the full facts. The truth of the matter may very well be something in between. Don't make the assumption that the BSA was bad, and Mr Missoni was right/good. the reality is usually something different.

[eolesen]

So far, the only things I've even seen regarding the SG's side are that this was an unethical and unprecedented abuse by BSA. But that's it. Nothing else to substantiate or even defend any of the criticisms in the original letter from any of the national organizations who signed the original open letter.

 

Sorry, I'm not going to just get caught up in the "Blame America" mentality that seems to prevailing here. But I also don't think it is at all unreasonable for BSA to be questioning how its donations to WOSM are used.

 

I've spent a lot of time in Geneva, and seen the facilities paid for directly and indirectly with UN funds, as well as by other international relief and humanitarian organizations. Spartan is not a word I'd use to describe most of them.

 

It's pretty clear that the concept of "A Scout Is Thrifty" was quickly forgotten when it came to the offices used by those tasked with administering the various programs.

 

In many years of traveling abroad, I've found that Europeans really don't question the disproportionate level of financial aid and security that Americans have provided them over the past 50 years, yet are also quite quick to call us bullies whenever something like this comes up...

 

So, personally, I hope WOSM finds a way to rely less on the BSA. That would allow more of the dollars we currently send abroad to be used to build up programs within our borders. Same thing with the UN. Let's see some of the more populous and socially progressive countries pick up their fair share.

[Slouchhat]

Well, this seems to be understood as a case of "might makes right" or better "money makes right" by many, though.

What some fail to understand, however, is the concept of solidarity. Please stop calling it "our money". You pay your dues to the organisation and it stops being "your money". There is a board which decides how the money is spent and the SG is an executive who does as the board tells him.

Maybe the board needs to wake up if the SG didn't act as he was told to?

 

To be honest, if BSA would want to secede from WOSM or if WOSM decides it could well enough make do without BSA, so be it. It wouldn't make much of a difference to most members.

[OldGreyEagle]

Yes, we pay dues, and because we pay dues we expect to have have some sort of say in how that money is spent. In this country its called Freedom of Association. If I disgaree with an organization that I once supported I vote with my feet and leave that organization. I may make an effort to understand the issues, but in the end, I get to choose how my money is used.

 

I am not sure how international American Bashing is supposed to rally my support to your side, it certainly isnt doing the job right now