Inappropriate Adult Knots

[ASM915]

Here goes the can of worms. On another forum someone posted a link to

to a good site about other awards. Under ADULT AWARDS I found one that I didn't recognize and clicked on it. It is called the INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD, and has its own (unofficial)knot to put on the uniform provided by SCOUT PRIDE. Yep you guessed right. It means that you're open to being approached by gay and or atheist Scouts.

 

And what would happen if I started the ADSA (Anti-Diversity Scouting Award). Someone would be at my door demanding that the award be stopped and threatening litigation. But I have to put up with them trying to pull the same thing.

 

Believe me, I'm not xenophobic. And I'm sure I know, unbeknown to me, plenty of fine closet gay and atheist scouts(ers). But why do we have to put up with this in your face bull?

[Beavah]

Yah, OK. That would be a true "uniform violation," eh? Unlike all da other things that get the Uniform Police all worked up, this one is a deliberate choice to wear somethin' that's truly contrary to BSA policy, eh? Somethin' that represents a position opposed to that of the National Executive Board, rather than a kid or an adult wearin' a fun patch or religious loops or whatever.

 

Personally, I think a better position is to just refuse to wear da uniform if yeh don't like what it stands for.

 

As usual, though, the choice of the rest of us is not "whether this is OK". Our choice is "What should I personally do when talkin' with a fellow scouter who's wearing an inclusive scouting knot?"

 

Probably same thing we do any other time we disagree with a friend. Be kind. Be courteous. Be understanding. And if there's an opportunity, while drinking coffee around a campfire some night, offer our personal "alternative perspective" in a way that invites our friend to think more deeply on the matter . But only in a Friendly way.

 

Beavah

 

 

P.S....Just one quibble, ASM915... da BSA membership policy applies to adult leaders, not scouts. The position for scouts is more nuanced. I would hope we'd all be open to being approached by a boy in our programs who is struggling with personal issues. Bein' a teenager is tough, eh? And kids along the way have all kinds of confusion and doubts and bouts with rebelliousness and such. I know one former "atheist" scout who went on to be a faithful Eagle and is now a minister. But when he became a teenager he just needed to be a rebel for a couple of years. -B

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

The official BSA position towards scouts is not more "nuanced", at least regarding atheists; they aren't allowed.

 

And ASM915, I suggest you put your money where your mouth is; who, for example, would be threatening "litigation", and on what grounds? And how is it against BSA policy for an adult member to indicate that they won't rat out a gay or atheist scout? Is it BSA policy that all gay and atheist scouts be reported or something?

 

Of course, if you're advocating that the BSA not only exclude gays and atheists, but also everyone who is against the current BSA policy and/or everyone who does not immediately report anyone suspected of being gay or atheist, I'm sure that'll really help membership numbers.

[ASM915]

Merlyn,

I would never even think of doing anything liky ADSA. It was just an example. I'm sure if I tried something like this, that National would be asking questions, and some of the more radical Pride people would be making a big fus over it. I don't know, maybe someone has already started questioning the Inclusive Scouting Award, and I'm just behind in the times.

 

Merlyn, the other fear would be what you described. How would the Scout(er) really know if the person wearing the knot was not just a plant to draw the supposed undesirables out into the open under false pretenses, and then show them the door.

 

Now there is always SpiralScouting. Maybe this knot would be more appropriate on their uniforms instead of trying to sneak it onto our uniforms and see if anyone notices.

 

Beav, I agree. I may not agree with the lifestyles or religious choices, but I'm willing to sit down, talk to and work with a Scout or Scouter that might approach me. And know Merlyn, not through them out. I see, talk to and work with several Wiccans, Driuds, Athiest, and a large Gay community every day and all this at a Catholic Hospital.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

So what was your remark about litigation? Just more hot air in an attempt to paint people who oppose the BSA's policies as barratrous?

[ScoutDadof5]

"But why do we have to put up with this in your face bull?"

 

Personally, I am tempted to bite and offer some snappy snide remark, but honestly, that would not buy anything but contempt.

 

In an effort to offer worthwhile discussion...If someone puts that on thier uniform, I am sure that most any other scouter they encounter is going to ask them what that "Knot" is about. If they have to explain that to another scouter and it gets to thier council, there is no telling what will happen to that scouter and thier membership. I have no clue, but I for one am not going down that road personally.

 

But that speaks to the purpose of the patch, not..."But why do we have to put up with this in your face bull?"

 

Why? For that...I rather like some of what Beavah said "...Be kind. Be courteous. Be understanding." After all, we are scouts. I may not like the agenda, but I do not have to subscribe.

 

Peace.

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

I've worn the Inclusive Scouting emblem since 2002. I wear it on my optional patch pocket. I wear it to notify the scouts in my unit that I am a "safe" adult to talk to - that I will not knee-jerk get them kicked out of scouting if they are struggling with gender identity or the mysteries of the universe ("God"). I made the choice to sew it onto my uniform after being made aware that suicide is the primary cause of death among American teenage boys and that gender confusion is a leading source of depression caused suicide.

 

Everyone in my unit is aware of my position on these issues and it's never been an issue. I was chosen to be SM while wearing the knot and was approved by our CO. I have often been asked about the knot at Wood Badge, at the 2005 Jamboree, at district and council events and at summer camps. My answer is simple and open ended. I never preach. If they want more information about it, or about my beliefs, I am open to dialogue. Some folks have raised their eyebrows at me and backed away. Most have been honestly interested. Some have been very supportive. Several of the ASMs in my unit now wear the patch also.

 

I am aware that it is not sanctioned by BSA and I knowingly choose to disobey this uniform regulation. I would not violate any aspect of YP or the G2SS, but in this uniforming issue my disobedience is thoughtful and in service of a greater purpose.

 

I would be happy to further discuss the Inclusive Scouting Emblem with anyone who chooses to send me a private message.

 

-Trevorum

 

[DanKroh]

Cool, a new source for the patches. I was fairly bummed when I tried to get one from the New England Coalition for Inclusive Scouting only to find out that they were defunct.

 

Thanks, Eric!

[GernBlansten]

Kinda reminds of Arlo Guthrie's Alice's Resturant.

(edited (poorly) for the Rainbow Patch...)

 

And the only reason I'm singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into the meeting wherever you are, just walk in wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walk out. You know, if

one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and

they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,

they may think they're both gay and they won't take either of them.

And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in

wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in wearing an INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

 

And that's what it is , the INCLUSIVE SCOUTING AWARD Anti-Discrimination Movement, and all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the guitar.

 

 

[Beavah]

First Monty Python and now Arlo Guthrie?

 

B

 

 

[Trevorum]

"If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud."

 

[epalmer84]

The Inclusive Scouting Award was from the Coalition for Inclusive Scouting, a now defunct group that was associated with Scouting for All.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_for_Inclusive_Scouting

 

Ed

[DanKroh]

hmmm... is there an echo in here?

 

The Inclusive Scouting Award is *now* available through ScoutPride, now that the Coalition for Inclusive Scouting is defunct:

 

http://scoutpride.interstateq.com/inclusive-scouting-award/

[packsaddle]

I support Trevorum's courageous stand on uniform knots. Actually, if I was not 'knot adverse' I'd probably do the same thing but it would be fine with me if ALL the knots just went away, including the two I do wear (Eagle and God and Country).

"If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud."

I sure wish someone would write these songs using correct grammar. I wonder if it's possible? Oh well, I guess E. coli happens.

[ASM915]

And C. Diff Packsaddle, And C. Diff.