Philly raises scouts rent $199,999/year

[scoutldr]

What do I really think? I think the BSA has painted themselves into a lose-lose corner. If they cave, they lose mega-dollars in support from the religious sector (LDS, et. al.)which the organization can't survive. If they don't cave, our support from corporations, Government and United Way continues to decline and we disappear anyway. Hate to say it, but I think the GSUSA got it right. No chartered organizations...just groups of neighborhood families getting together to do the right thing for the kids...ALL kids.

[Eamonn]

$547.00 a day? Does seem like a lot!

$1.00 a year? Doesn't sound fair.

How about making the building the National HQ for the LFL program?

The Council could move all the traditional program activities to the Roger S. Firestone Scout Resource Center.

 

We (Scouter's) might not like it? But the BSA does discriminate.

If this discrimination means that the city would be breaking the law by allowing taxpayer support of a group that discriminates? Then I don't see what choice the city has?

Seems to me that we can't have our cake and eat it.

We can change the policy or pay the piper.

We can't have it both ways!!

Eamonn.

 

[CalicoPenn]

Philadelphia's BSA Headquarters building would be considered a single tenant office building. Typically, single tenant buildings, be they office, retail or industrial, have NNN (Triple Net) Leases - that means that in addition to base rent, the Tenant pays for all other expenses needed to maintain and operate the building, including taxes, property and liability insurance, and maintenance & repair costs. In most single tenant buildings, the tenant pays for those services/expenses directly, meaning they contract for the services, they pay all the bills when due. Any improvements made to the building are adjudged to be beneficial to the Tenant and such improvements then remain part of the building when the Lease expires. The Landlord does not pay for these improvements (beyond initial Tenant Improvement costs negotiated with a Lease to make the building ready for occupancy by the Tenant).

 

In Ground Leases, which sounds like what the now canceled Lease truly was, the Tenant leases the ground and is allowed to build a building on the ground, at their expense. When the Lease expires or is otherwise terminated, the building becomes part of the property with no cost to the Landlord. In essence, the Boy Scouts may have built that building, but that building isn't theirs. At the end of the day, the building and all improvments belong to the Landlord (in this case the City). Most Ground Leases contain a clause that allows the Landlord to inspect any building the Tenant puts up and make demands for repairs or reasonable improvements (such as those required by changes in law) to maintain the building's long term value (No Landlord wants to be stuck with a building that was not maintained properly - what often happens is a couple of years before the Ground Lease expires, a smart Landlord will have a full inspection of the property done including roof, HVAC equipment, parking lot, structural and environmental then make sure the Tenant makes all needed repairs or replacements before the Lease expires - Tenants who have never performed preventative maintenance on their roof or HVAC equipment or the parking lot often find themselves spending big money in the final year to replace HVAC equipment, replace the roof and replace the parking lot). A typical Ground Lease collects rent only for the land, not the improvements - and base rent for a building is higher - generally much higher - than rent for land only. Most Ground Leases are also NNN Leases - the Tenant paying for all expenses for the improvements they've made, as well as the taxes and insurance.

 

I've not been able to find the square footage of the building which would be the only way to determine if the $200K is market rent or not. Current market rent for a Class B office in Philadelphia (This building would be no better than a Class B) is about $10.00/net. If this building is 20,000 sq. ft., that would be about right.

 

Calico

[eolesen]

"I think it is a shame that the BSA is willing to throw an entire Council under the bus lest their religious mega-sponsors get pissed off and withdraw support."

 

And I think it is a shame that a very vocal and politically connected/media savvy minority has the ability to strong-arm organizations like the BSA, the church, and private business just because those organizations are opposed to their lifestyle.

 

The council doesn't have to be in a landmark building in order to achieve the same purpose. If consolidating into the VF offices isn't practical, I'd make a point of finding office space outside the Philly city limits.

[eolesen]

Follow up, since edit isn't working...

 

I also don't think it's just the mainstream churches and the LDS who are influencing the decision to hold firm on the policy concerning faith and orientation.

 

If you were to poll active adult leaders and parents of Scouts nationwide, you'd probably find that a overwhelming majority support the current positions, and it would be that way across pretty consistently if you divided it up by the predominant chartering organizations.

 

 

[packsaddle]

I agree with Scoutldr, Eamonn, and CalicoPenn. BSA knew the risks and took a particular legal stance in support of discrimination. Now it is time to pay the piper. I cannot fault the city for following the law. If they continued to basically 'give' the property to BSA they would be breaking the law.

So...let's see...on one hand, Philly breaks the law, gains no income from BSA, gets sued by ACLU, and has to pay out a lot of money for the legal battle.

On the other hand, Philly acts lawfully and charges BSA, thus making money.

Folks, this is a no-brainer, IMHO. If BSA can't afford to compete in the marketplace for office space, then maybe they need to find cheaper digs.

[eolesen]

I don't disagree, but the unique factor here is that BSA funded the construction of the landmark building, not the city.

 

I'm sure there is a community somewhere more than willing to welcome having a Service Center, or maybe even a chartering organization who is willing to sublease space or land for a new building. Heck, call the guys in Salt Lake City or Rome. If they're really that influential in BSA's national policy, they may be willing to pony up some land and/or an existing facility...

[FScouter]

Hey, if you could negotiate a $1 lease, who would say "no"? So, if now if the lease term is up and the landlord wants to bow to PC pressure instead of supporting an organization that provides a proven benefit to society, well tough luck for Scouting and society.

 

Calico presented a good picture of the realities of market leases. The solution here is to sign a new lease at market rates and up the annual reg fee by a buck or two to pay for it. This ain't the end of Scouting in Philly.

[Joni4TA]

I think $1 a year is a crock.

I also think $200,000 a year sounds steep.

 

Philly shouldn't have to kowtow to the BSA, and the BSA shouldn't be expecting their cake and think they can eat it too.

 

It's a shame things always have to go into court and make big media scandal though.

 

I do wonder what OTHER organizations are still getting a serious break like that $1 a year thing, and will continue to - because their views concur with the city's though? Or at least they haven't been thrown into the limelight.

[eolesen]

The smart organizations either own their own facilies or have arranged for 99 year leases (very popular earlier in the century...). My former employer was the beneficiary of a 99 year lease in New York City, and with 20 years left to go, was paying about 25% of the market rate for the real estate they occupied.

[SSScout]

The on-going debate not withstanding, (evmori makes some good points and scoutldr makes sense too)

on behalf of my fellow Transit workers everywhere, I must protest the increase in the misuse of the term "throw under the bus" to indicate the lack of realization of what is really lost by any particular action.

 

On behalf of the many baby washers (I use to be one) everywhere, I wish to protest (pre use) the unfortunate use of the term "throw the baby out with the bath water".

 

Now, you were saying?

 

 

[scoutldr]

Just goes to show that no matter what I say, someone is sure to be offended. So, with that as a given, I no longer attempt to be PC.;-)

 

The National Capitol Area Council HQ in Bethesda, MD was donated by Mr. Marriott (the hotel guy and prominent Mormon). Perhaps he will help out the Philly kids, as well.

[onehouraweekmy]

Post's contents deleted. Because you feel the Scouts are being "attacked" does not give you the right to come on here and attack other groups with beliefs different than yours. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[erickelly65]

I didnt see anything in his post that "attacked" anyone else. Certainly not in any way that is offensive.

[evmori]

There was nothing wrong with the post by onehouraweekmy. Seems some got their feeling hurt! Oh well!