Joni4TA Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I didn''t want to bring this up to hash it again, I am just curious about something specific and need some clarification. The BSA policy on homosexuality is on this website: http://www.bsalegal.org/morally-straight-cases-225.asp And in regards to Youth, specifically Youth Leadership it says, "In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position." Does this mean that a Boy Scout who is a "known" or "avowed" homosexual can REMAIN a Boy Scout, but can never hold a Youth Leadership position? If so, the obvious issue with this is, every Boy Scout Rank from Star Scout on to Eagle requires a Leadership position to move forward to the next rank. A homosexual Scout would remain no more than a First Class Scout, indefinitely, and never be a Patrol Leader or hold any other leadership positions such as Scribe, Librarian, Quartermaster, etc. I dont know that there would be any incentive for a Boy to stay in a Troop where he can never serve as a Youth Leader nor move forward in rank. Perhaps this is, by design, what this policy effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Actually, if I had a scout who held himself out to be a heterosexual, I would have a difficult time with it as well regardless of his POR. (Unless of course he were married) (This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I suppose the fellow's Scoutmaster could assign him a "Position of Responsibility" that does not involve leadership. Maybe maintaining the troop website. Another interpretation that a younger boy who comes out could be a PL but not an "older" boy. Go figure. (This message has been edited by Trevorum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I went to the site after I made my above remark. I am not sure this is an Official BSA website. It appears to be supportive of the BSA, but if it''s not official, conclusions based on information presented here may not follow BSA policy. (did I explain that well?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 OGE, are you saying virgins aren't hetero- or homosexual? Those terms just indicate what sex they are attracted to, not whether they've had sex. Any scouts ever say "I like girls" within earshot? I'd say that qualifies as declaring their heterosexuality (or possibly bisexuality). PS: OGE, bsalegal.org is an official BSA website.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni4TA Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Position of Responsibility - true enough. I suppose all "Positions of Responsibility" aren''t necessarily considered Youth Leadership? Maybe? I don''t know? Because most Scouts who hold a "Position of Responsibility" generally attend the PLC, that would make them part of the Leadership wouldn''t it? Not all appointed youth positions hold votes on the PLC (like the Scribe who just records what happens in the Troop or the Librarian and Historian). This policy sounds ambiguous to me as it relates to the Youth, especially where it says "older" boy as well. As Trevorum pointed out, what if a "younger" boy holds himself out to be homosexual? I totally get the Adult Leader stance - if he/she is "known" or "avowed" - they''re removed from their position. It sounds like if you have a "known" or "avowed" homosexual ASPL, he too is to be removed from his position, only if he''s "older". But then what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni4TA Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yes, bsalegal.org is definitely official. It''s linked right from National''s website as such - http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=promox&c=http://www.bsalegal.org On the left side of the main page under "More Scouting Info" in the scroll box, color is tan. I guess there''s been so many legal issues they had to create a whole separate website just for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Sounds like yet another example of a poorly written policy that causes more problems than it solves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well thank-you Merlyn, how scout-like to be helpful. Let me attempt to de-obsfuscate my comments. I hold that scouts are to be asexual. That is, they are neither hetero or homo sexual. If a scout were to be describing a sexual activity between himself and a girl (and they aren''t married) I would have some reservations about that scout''s fitness to be a scout, the same reservations I would have if it were between the boy and another boy. I regard pornographic material, whether gay or straight, to be equally abhorrent if found on an activity. (whether in adult or youth possesion). I understand the unique role model adult scouters may have in a youth''s life, and while I hope the youth feel free enough to ask me anything, if they ask me some questions, they are likley to see one beet red adult who is hemming and hawing enough to make Jackie Gleason jealous. (Hummana, Hummana, Hummana) I hope I never scar a youth, I do the best I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Those terms just indicate what sex they are attracted to, not whether they''ve had sex. For once I agree with Merlyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGreyEagle Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Somewhere Satan just said "Is it getting colder in here?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Well, folks, turn out the lights and let's go home. Our work here is done. (This message has been edited by Trevorum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni4TA Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Unfortunately I can''t turn out the light, I need the input on this one. If an older Boy becomes a known or avowed homosexual - does he..... 1) Get tossed out on his ear? 2) Get to stay in the Troop and just never hold ANY leadership position, and never progress past First Class? 3) Get to stay in the Troop, get to progress past First Class by being given other POR''s that aren''t considered direct Youth Leadership? And lastly - if you had an older Scout, who is a known and avowed homosexual who presents himself as such, and takes option 3 above...... makes it to his Eagle BOR, how many of you (if you were sitting on the EBOR) would grant that Rank to the Boy??? I am CONFUSED about the policy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GernBlansten Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Joni, How is he known or avowed? Did he get picked up in a public restroom sting? Did he proclaim for all to hear that he is gay? Did he get outted? Is he sexually active? Is he just swishy and someone''s gaydar went off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlyn_LeRoy Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 According to the idiots running the national BSA, no known or avowed gays are allowed to be members, period, youth or adult. You can''t change that rule, but you can ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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