An Inconvenient Lie?

[skeptic]

While there is a chance that Gore may have been blind sided, the fact remains that he, and his party ran an absolutely abysmal campaign. Even a slight effort in a number of areas by his party would likely have made the Florida fiasco mute. But, that is past, and hopefully we can move forward. He has apparently, whether you agree with him or not.

 

I would agree with all the others who note that the documentary would have been stronger if the other side had been presented. Still, at least it has brought to fore the existence of large amounts of evidence that we, as a world population, are negatively affecting our enviroment. Whether the prognosis is as ill-fated as some would claim is still to be determined. We, on this board, will not live to see it (at least not in our present life form); but it is possible that ways will be found to mitigate the damage. In the meantime, we should be doing what we can to alleviate things we can effect, such as less use of certain fuels and finding cleaner ways to do things, and more efficient energy sources. The natural cycles in history seem to show that often global changes will self correct many problems; but we are not talking in human life spans here. Respect for the earth and environment is an extension of respect for ourselves and our future generations. What can be wrong with that?

 

As an aside, coming from only very superficial understanding, but as a geographer (B.S. degree)and former weather observer in the Air Force; the polar icecaps are actually cold deserts, or have been. But, when the continental glaciation occurred, the climate was such that huge quantities of snow accumulated to cause the weight that evolved into the glaciers. If GW should change the physics of the atmosphere to once again allow large accumulations of snow in these northern climes, what will come from that? Just a thought.

 

Back to scouting. Lets focus on what we can actually effect in bringing the program to the youth. Be open minded when questioned, but do not try to convert or be blind to other alternatives. We simply want these youth to have the skills to hopefully make their world a better place.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Firstpusk, I presented that link to the forums quite a while back (your followup link to Gern was great, BTW!). While I agree with you, the response that I got was that those who were critical of Gore still interpreted his interview the same way that the Republican strategists did when they interpreted it the way Ed does. I think Ed really believes what he says. The Republican strategists obviously reworded it to make Gore look bad for political purposes. It worked.

Al Gore is not a monument to intellect (unless compared to Bush). He was born into a life of privilege and with a silver spoon in his mouth. He went to private academies and ivy league schools. He is not a man "of the people" in that respect, and hardly represents the persona of the Tennessee "Davy Crockett" man.

However, Al Gore is sincere. He is not stupid. He does and says what he thinks is correct and to some extent, I think that is what ticks off his political opposition the most. That and the fact that he lives well and can just shrug them off. (I could say the same for Jimmie Carter)

He got the Nobel and the other awards. And he got the vote of the MAJORITY of the voters in 2000. I suspect he can sleep well enough knowing these things. But for him to continue to try to make a difference when he really doesn't have to lift a finger for the rest of his life...now THAT is a real difference. And, I might add, should be embraced by scouters as exhibiting real scout spirit.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Beavah]

Hmmm... ditto what packsaddle said.

 

In the wider world of ideas, there''s always someone who has an alternate set of "facts" and a competing theory.

 

Some folks believe that waiving crystals and magnets around is more effective than modern medical practice.

I know someone who believes that the Aliens are coming back during the next conjunction of Jupiter and something or other.

 

The point is, not all theories are created equal. When you''re diagnosed with cancer, you''d best go with the consensus of modern science, or perhaps a new experimental treatment based on evidence working off that consensus. Running off to an African tribal witch doctor, while an alternate theory, is.... stupid. It is not a virtue to consider that "other side of the argument."

 

When we''re talking about an emergin'' scientific consensus, then, you''d best come with some real evidence and some humility when proposing an alternative. It just ain''t the case that "my opinion is as valid as anyone else''s".

 

That sense of humility is important. Even as a convinced Christian, I must balance what God wrote in the stars and rocks and molecules along with what He wrote through human history and the Bible. And, yes, even to trust the scientific consensus on what is written in Nature, because those folks are better at reading that kind of text. Then come with humility to discuss where the other Writings apply, and where the text of Nature is incomplete and best informed by Biblical writings and evidence.

 

Otherwise I''m no better than those that dismiss scientific consensus out of hand in order to believe in Purple Pixies.

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

Ahem, that "ditto" part is sort of troubling for some reason...or do I remind you, somehow, of the "Bald Ego" himself?

[firstpusk]

Thanks pack, I understand what you are saying. I get a bit tired of the sliming mentality. Much like his work on the internet, Gore has worked with scientists to popularize their work. Climate change is a reality. The exact extent of its impact and its timing is not clearly understood, yet.

 

I appreciate you mentioning that the science is available to those who are willing to seek it. I have spent some time reading some of it. I also have sought out the ''work'' of those taking an alternate view. I have yet to find a scientist skeptical of consensus view that hasn''t taken oil company money. That does not mean they are dishonest, but it does make me question if there is ''another side'' in any real scientific sense. I certainly think it would be more appropriate to question the honesty of these skeptics than that of Gore.

[BrentAllen]

pack,

We teach our Scouts to lead by example, and Gore certainly does NOT do that! He yells from the mountain tops that the sky is falling, and flies back, in a private jet, to his house that is using 10 times the energy of the US household. He must really believe in his cause! And I really enjoy the fact that he is so willing to listen to the other side, and debate the issue. Oh, wait - he has refused EVERY opportunity to debate global warming. Now, there is a man firm in his convictions. He lives like there is no concern for tomorrow, and he isn''t willing to take the stage with anyone to debate the subject. Yeah, sign me up!

 

There are plenty of other reasons for him to be pushing his cause, when he doesn''t have to lift a finger. #1 would be to stroke his huge ego. #2 he gets to sell bogus cabon offsets back to himself. What a scam!

[evmori]

Well, Al Gore did state "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." What he meant & what he said just goes to prove he can''t put together a coherent sentence. And he is awarded a Nobel Peace Prize? He is a peer of other great thinkers & scholars? I really don''t think so. And if I''m not mistaken, isn''t Al Gores global warming footprint bigger than most? Great example! And I''m a life long registered democrat!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[firstpusk]

Ed, I believe that you said:

"Al Gore didn''''t invent the internet! Al Gore can''''t dance! These are all facts we must live with!"

 

Al Gore didn''t claim he invented the internet. You were wrong.

 

Gore''s energy use has been a subject of attack from a number of right-wing groups. He claims that he is trying to reduce the energy usage of his house. He has purchased high cost green energy sources. He then claims to purchase enough carbon offsets to reduce his carbon footprint to zero. The reporting I have read from these critics emphasizes the energy usage and garbles or tries to ignore the green energy sources and carbon offsets. I''d be happier if he consumed less in the first place. However, I haven''t seen anything that can contradict his zero carbon footprint claim.

 

[evmori]

"I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

 

And he can''t dance, either!

[packsaddle]

If, for the sake of argument, I accepted all of Gore''s critics'' claims regarding his personal energy usage, none of those things would have any bearing on the ideas he is stating. If you want to call him a hypocrit, fire away. I hope that same label is applied to every other capitalist who ever embraces an environmental issue - from Bill Gates on down.

 

But I can''t help wondering if such criticism isn''t really just envy of a man whose wealth came easily, for whom life is rich and affordable (and he pays his bills), and whose life accomplishments vastly exceed those of his critics. I''d bet that BSA would lavish attention on him if he indicated an interest in helping scouting. Or am I wrong about that? I''d bet that BSA would lavish attention on Jimmie Carter if he indicated an interest in helping scouting. Possibly Bill Clinton. Anyone disagree?

[GernBlansten]

The US Senator who sponsored the bill which allowed for the Internet to be funded can rightfully state that he took the initiative in creating the Internet. Without that legislation, the internets would not be what it is today. He didn''t invent the Internet, he never said he did. And I really don''t care if he can dance.

[firstpusk]

"I took the initiative in creating the Internet."

 

Gore clearly took the legislative initiative to make the internet possible. He deserves credit for being ahead of every other political leader on that account. What is your excuse for repeating a falsehood?

[OldGreyEagle]

Oh Packsaddle, you wily curmudgeon,

 

Are you saying that perhaps with an Endowment of 5 million (or so) to the BSA Mr Gore sets up the Albert Gore "Environmental Affirmative Action Award", this would be on line with the Hornaday medal and have local, regional and national versions

 

Would National rush to embrace the concept? (as well as the endowment?) interesting thought...

 

[firstpusk]

I''m shocked! Shocked, that someon would think national would allow money to influence program decisions.

[Trevorum]

I''m mystified by this thing about Al Gore and dancing. Is someone saying that he once claimed to be a good dancer?