Invisible Scout Part 2

[packsaddle]

I saw this in championship wrestling once, called the "death grip", (and everyone knows it's real don't they). Both contestants hold on until they both expire. At the risk of making things worse, I would like to try to get past this impass.

 

Ed, If you apply the strategy you suggest for judging spirit, and allow everyone the freedom to employ that same strategy, there are plenty of other characteristics and activities that are NOT mentioned in the regulations. For example, did the boy attend troop meetings but NOT the service projects? Or NOT the last few courts of honor? There are other more bizarre possibilities that wayward scoutmasters might also apply if they had that latitude. The problem is deciding where to draw the line and Bob is suggesting that the line is simply stated in the regulations, no more, no less. And to read more into that because something is NOT mentioned risks going beyond the intent of the regulations. I sure hope this helps.

[evmori]

Bob,

What am I adding?

 

 

 

 

[mk9750]

Packsaddle,

 

I'm with you on the death grip thing. Problem is, we all defend positions to the death, because we believe in them so intensely. If we took a position that could easily be swayed, what would that say about our character? And having such strong opinions makes everyone on the other side of the arguement idiots (LOL! - please!!)

 

Ed,

 

I think that Bob, I and others are trying to point out that you are adding the requirement of attendance to the the list of other requirements. Everything you say makes it appear as though regardless of the candidate's other traits (his Scout Spirit), you can't get by his lack of attendance. And this is adding to the requirements.

 

If you are saying that in judging his Scout Spirit, you would include his attendance AS A COMPONENT OF LOYALTY (not entirely loyalty, as he could have been loyal in other aspects of his life), and include Loyalty AS A COMPONENT OF HIS OVERALL SCOUT SPIRIT, than I agree with you. But in such a case, I would be shocked (and I mean really, really suprised) if a boy who finds Eagle so appealing would not be able to show evidence of Scout Spirit that more than makes up for missing Troop meetings and events.

 

I'd like to point out one other thing. I believe much of what the process Scouts go through to prove themselves worthy of Eagle is similiar to what companies who try to become ISO 9000 certified go through. An ISO auditor does not try to find examples of failing to meet the requirements, he tries to find evidence that the company has complied. I think this is true for the Eagle "certification" also. In Boards of Review, I want to see evidence that the candidate has lived the Scout Oath and Law. If in looking for such evidence, I uncovered that the Scout lied, even a few times, for instance, but generally is truthful and trustworthy, the couple of small incidents would not keep me from "certifying" him. Would I look for more evidence that he complied because of the those failures? Yes, probably. But if I saw that the boy had generally lived a life that would make Boys Scouts, and Eagle Scouts, proud to have him, I'd never let that one transgression stop me from voting yes. But if all I was looking for were reasons to fail him, than that would be enough, I guess.

 

Ed, your dogged determination to keep the rolls of Eagle Scout filled with only the cream of the crop should be commended. But for this one, I really think you're off base.

 

Mark

[Bob White]

Ed,

You quit listening to me before you fininshed my first post just because it was MY post. Perhaps you will listen to all the other posters who are trying to convince you that you are wrong on this. You certainly aren't paying any attention to what the scouting program has to offer on this topic.

 

I'm sorry you find this so hard to comprehend but I feel more sorry for the scout who didn't get, or isn't getting, beyong your personal peeve to attain the Eagle rank.

 

This should be about the scout satisfying the requirements in his handbook, not having to satisfy an overly controlling Scoutmaster.

 

Good luck to you both,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

MArk,

Maybe I am pushing the envelope a little. Just trying to make a point that there are things in the program that fall into a gray area that are not as well defined as others.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[sctmom]

How many adults (parents and leaders) have you heard say "Son, you need to get your Eagle because it looks good on your college resume"?

Personally, I've heard it a lot in my limited Scout experience.

 

[SR540Beaver]

Heck, I told my 10 year old Webelos son just last week that Eagle is helpful to getting into college. But I went further and explained why. Because it shows that you know how to commit yourself to a hard task and finish it. Because it shows that you have learned and lived desirable values such as citizenship, loyalty, thrift, reverence, swimming without a noseclip and goggles, etc. Ok, just kidding about the last one! Also that it shows you have developed leadership skills. I told him that college is not like public school, they do not have to take anyone who walks thru the door and they will accept the best and most worthy students they can to invest their time in. I also explained that it is no different than having good grades for the same reason. There is nothing wrong with a Scout acknowledging that Eagle will help open doors unless that is all he cares about. He needs to be able to articulate why earning the Eagle is beneficial to his future and to helping him continue the Scouting Spirit as he takes his place in the adult world.

 

Now, having been around many teenage boys (used to be one myself many moons ago), I know that it is difficult to get some guys to mumble more than 5 words a day. I can see one at a BOR saying, because it will help me get into college without wanting to go into detail. It is the nature of the beast at this age. Hopefully he knows and can explain the why that goes with it and wil take the opportunity to express it.