He Made a Mistake - Will You Turn Your Back on Him?

[Rikki12]

What do you do when a boy smokes a joint for the first time given to him by another scout? Especially a boy with ADHD. There is medical proof that these kids struggle with impulse control and have trouble seeing the consequences of their actions. What if this scout had been a member in good standing for 10 years and had held several positions of leadership? What if the law said there was no proof of wrong-doing, but when asked if he had smoked the joint he responsibly stood up and admitted his guilt?. What if this boy then went to his scout master and informed him of what he had done and offered to resign his leadership position? And what if the troop master thanked him for his honesty, but insisted he further accepted responsibility for his actions by retaining his leadership position and developing a DARE program for the troop and performing other community service? And what if the parents also punished him for his misdeed?

 

Is that not what the BSA is all about? Mentoring and guiding boys, even if they are not perfect?

 

Then what if the local council stepped in over a month later and revoked the boy's membership because they had received some information? They don't say what information they received and when asked, they said they don't have anything in writing, only rumors. And what if this council denies having copies of any policies or procedures in dealing with this kind of situation for the parents to review?

 

And what if the entire troop is up in arms, knowing this is basically a good boy that made a momentary poor decision? What if everyone is writing letters, encouraging his continued membership? But what if a representative who is a member of the local and national councils, tells the parents that it is a waste of time, that no matter how many letters they collect, it is a done deal, that the review will be held behind closed doors without parental attendance, and there is no hope?

 

What do you do? Do you let the PAID BSA throw your child on the garbage heap of humanity? What if no paid official will talk to you and tell you what he is accused of, even though they have no problems telling other BSA representatives untruthful versions, in direct contrast to what the law said when they admitted there was no proof of wrongdoing and in contrast to what the boys involved admitted to at the time of the event?

 

As a parent you start your own investigation and learn the PAID BSA did not provide adequate adult interaction, supervision, or training. But instead of being as responsible as the boys that admitted to their misdeeds, the PAID BSA ban these boys without any proof of wrongdoing and hide behind silence and closed doors.

 

Is this why the American version of the PAID Boy Scouts demands religious beliefs in order to be a troop member? So they can stand in moral judgement of those unable to defend themselves?

 

----

According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her. The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She

replied, No man, lord. Jesus then said, Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.

 

----

It absolutely amazes me that an organization that purports to guide and mentor the boys of the U.S. of America will throw a boy onto the garbage heap of humanity for making a mistake. The professionals that run this organization crow long and loud of all the wonderful things they do, when in reality it is the NON-PAID VOLUNTEERS that are responsible for the positive aspects of the BSA. The PAID BSA falsifies enrollment records, pay themselves outrageous salaries, use troop money to buy themselves expensive vehicles and then have the audacity to tell a boy he is not worthy and revoke his membership.

 

Jesus did not hang with the holier-than-thou hypocrites who condemned all of those around them. He searched for those that were not perfect and held out his hand in love. He helped them find a new direction for their lives.

 

The PAID BSAs CANNOT demand a religious affiliation for all participants and then turn around and act like vigilantes (judge, jury, and executioner). The PAID BSA failed the boy who made a mistake, but instead of reaching out a helping hand, they are going to bury their failure under the garbage dump.

 

Either the PAID BSAs are a contigent of perfect human beings that have NEVER, EVER made a mistake, or they are hypocrites that break the very first of the 12 points of the Scout Law. THEY ARE NOT TRUSTWORTY.

 

So volunteers, are you going to sit on your hands and allow the PAID BSAs to continue stealing from your sons as they sit on their high thrones of judgement, or are you going to take your troops back and return to the Boy Scouts that Baden Powell foresaw? (Baden Powell even believed that NO ONE should be paid for their association with the Boy Scouts.)

 

What do parents do that cannot penetrate the wall of no information and silence and cannot afford an attorney? What if the troop master is told by the council that he needs to back off and no longer support the boy? What if the continued membership of other troop members and leaders are threatened if they continue to support this boy?

 

Do you want your sons subjected to the organization of the PAID BSA? Is there a lawyer willing to step forward and help on a pro bono basis? Are you willing to step forward and risk your own membership to create an organization truly worthy of your son?

[Eamonn]

I'm a little unsure what the real question is?

Are you asking "How would I deal with this"?

Or are you saying that something has happened that seems to have been maybe not managed as well as it might have been?

Ea

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forums Rikki12. Unless I've misunderstood the circumstances you described, I share your disappointment. However, as I have been informed on many occasions, BSA can kick any of us out for any reason or no reason at all. They don't have to explain their decision to anyone nor do they have to justify it. Legally, BSA is a private religious organization and just because anyone meets the requirements for membership does not mean we are allowed or entitled to be members.

 

BSA established this status in a legal battle in order to be able to legally discriminate. The Supreme Court agreed with BSA's arguments. The sword that cut out that particular individual (party to the legal battle) also cuts the other way. In both directions persons who might make either contributions or mistakes in their lives are cut by the policy...arbitrarily, if BSA so chooses. However, they are still free to make those contributions or mistakes outside BSA.

This is the law of the land as determined by our highest court. The only choice we have if we find this intolerable - is not to join. Many don't. I don't support it. I do adhere to it because I want, for the time being, to avoid that cutting edge...not exactly a positive motivational force, is it?

 

I am sorry for this boy if this is not a hypothetical situation. I hope he can use this setback, learn from it, grow stronger for it, and, perhaps, work in the future for more inclusive opportunities for himself and others.

 

Or, having been ejected by BSA, if he wants to exact some payback, the greatest pain will be felt through loss of funding. It seems to be the only source of pain they feel. I could be wrong.

[le Voyageur]

 

 

You may find this site usefull

 

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/

[WAKWIB]

Happy that the boy admitted his wrong, and is willing to make amends.

Sad that the professionals in Scouting seem to have a problem with that aspect of character themselves (in many cases).

Agree that units should work to become as self-governing and self-supporting as they can.

Disagree that paid professionals should be done-away with entirely. They can play a vital role, but I think many have lost focus on what that role is.

The comparison of them with the "lawyers" in Jesus' time is interesting, though not necessarily valid. At least one of the Pharisees (see Nicodemus in John 3) realized a need for help from Jesus to continue on the right path.

The pro's in scouting that I have crossed paths with seem to be pretty self-secure and resistant to the advice of youth and adult Scouters who want to see the program continue to be a movement, rather than just a machine.

[scoutldr]

Rikki, thanks for sharing this situation with us. It's making the decision I'm wrestling with become more clear day by day. I would venture to say that what the scouts did happen every day in Scouting...or worse. I admire the scout's honesty and his willngness to take responsibility for his lapse in judgement. I also admire the SM's wisdom in his handling of the situation and a very insightful reaction. As long as the basic membership requirements are met, I see no justification for the Council's interference. The units belong to the Chartered Organization, and decisions on how to handle discilplinary problems should rest at the unit/CO level, assuming that legal charges were not levied.

[Beavah]

Hiya, Rikki. As hard as it is, step back and take a deep breath.

 

Now, as packsaddle said, yeh need to drop a few things from your argument. The fact that there's no legal case against an adult (or youth), or that a DA chooses not to file charges in a case, is irrelevant. There are all kinds of real-world situations where it's right and proper for a unit to expel a lad or an adult without hard-and-fast proof of criminal culpability.

 

A boy smokin' a joint on a campout is a tough thing. A unit needs to think not only of what's best for the boy, but what's best for the troop. Like it or not, other parents may pull their boys out of a troop that doesn't take a strong stand against illegal drug use. Still more parents will choose not to send their webelos to such a troop. "Did you hear they had boys smoking pot on a campout, and they're still in leadership positions in the troop? My son might get him as a PL!". That's tough for a lot o' parents to swallow. It takes a really, really savvy SM and a real strong communication effort to pull that off without hurtin' the troop and other boys. And yeh can bet that the parents who didn't like this one bit called the BSA council.

 

Lots of times leaders in youth programs have to make the decision to do what's best for all the kids, and for the program, even if it's hard on one boy.

 

Now, I'd say if the SM was a really strong, well-respected chap with good communication skills, and if he had the full backing of the troop committee and the Chartered Organization, and if he did a good job promptly communicating with the council to get them on board before they started getting outside complaints, and if he did a great job of communicating with all the parents to get 'em on board, THEN a troop could pull off something like what you describe. Maybe. It's really tough for a boy to be usin' illegal drugs on a campout, and for the average troop parent to see no real action being taken. The boy isn't suspended, he keeps his position of responsibility.

 

If all that wasn't done well, then sadly this is the kind of situation where the CO or BSA is likely to step in. Personally, I would have advised the unit that a suspension and a loss of POR were necessary. The youth had it right, takin' responsibility for wrongdoing means losing positions of respect until you are able to regain people's trust. The lax response was the wrong lesson for the other boys, IMO.

 

I doubt the situation is rescuable at this point, sadly. But to pursue it, letters from the troop and family will not be effective. This needs to be taken up by the COR with the council president and scout executive.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, one thing to add, eh?

 

As a rule, when a lad is caught smokin' a joint, it's almost never the first time. No matter what the lad says. We parents are pretty naive about this stuff sometimes.

 

Usually, a kid gets caught because he's been doin' it often enough that he's become careless. Like doin' it on a scout trip, as opposed to doin' it in the wooded area of a park after school with no adults around, or the hundreds of other places where there's no chance of gettin' nabbed.

 

Never believe that it's really "the first time."

 

B

 

 

 

[Rikki12]

Wait a minute. I am confused. I have no problem with the BSA being a private organization and setting guidelines for participation in the organization (although Baden Powell believed it should be open to ALL boys.)

 

And like any other organization, I would expect it to have bylaws / policies that are readily available to all participants and followed by ALL levels involved, from the paid, to the volunteers, to the boys. But that is not what I am finding.

 

I can't find the bylaws / policies for this type of situation and when we asked the local council, they said they didn't have any. We have also requested them from regional, but cannot get an answer. I have searched the web sites for national and local and can't find anything. I have looked through all of my son's books and can't find anything.

 

What I did find was a lot of stuff about providing mentorship and guidance to boys to help them grow into positive and contributing members of society. There was information from The Guide to Safe Scouting that stated "One of the developmental tasks of childhood is to learn appropriate behavior. Children are not born with an innte sense of propriety and they need guidance and direction." It also states that "The Boy Scouts of America does not recognize any secret organization as part of its program. All aspects of the Scouting program are open to observation by parents and leaders." These general concepts are what I found everywhere I looked.

 

What we are experiencing is vastly different. Any policies and bylaws for this situation are hidden very well. And who is the BSA? Is it an omnipotent being that is absolutely perfect in every aspect of its existence? Does the BSA not have to follow the same rules everyone is required to follow? Is the omnipotent BSA allowed to make up secret rules to fit whatever they want?

 

I had foolishly thought the BSA was our boys and the fantastic troop they belonged to and the volunteers that supported them. I thought the BSA was what I read in the Scout's Handbook. I thought the BSA was Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverant. The Senior Patrol Leader Handbook states "Good Leaders are servant leaders. They focus on helping others succeed."

 

What I am seeing is very much what our forefathers faced when they rebelled against King George III and England: "Taxation without representation." The PAID BSAs are taking the money, making whatever rules they want without consequence, and expecting all of the volunteers and boys to subjugate themselves on the alter of the BSA.

 

Over the years I donated a lot of money to support the Boy Scouts in their fight against the ACLU. I naively believed what the PAID BSAs spouted. But in the last few weeks my eyes have been opened to the hypocritical and destructive side of the PAID BSAs that make $900,000 plus a year, drive expensive cars and receive other benefits paid for by money raised by our boys and received from charity organizations to support our boys. I am stunned at the endless stream of scandels across this country involving falsely inflated enrollment numbers to steal more charity money.

 

We have 3 choices.

 

1. Continue to subjugate ourselves and our boys on the alter of the omnipotent PAID BSA.

 

2. Walk away from the BSA and find an organization with integrity that lives by its Mission Statement, and leave the PAID BSA to continue to fleece other naive parents and sons with their deception.

 

3. Take a stand along with other like-minded individuals and take back the BSA to make it the organization it was meant to be.

 

So I guess I am trying to find out if others are as sick with what is going on as I am. I want to see boys have the opportunities the BSA provides, but is the only way to get those opportunities is to accept corruption and deception as part of the package? Are the opportunities worth the price?

 

I want my son to have integrity and to grow into a man that stands up for what is right. I believe his troop can help him learn this, but I no longer believe the PAID BSA of the local or national councils are capable of being appropriate role models.

 

My e-mail is MaintainBSAforBoys@yahoo.com. There is a lot I don't understand about the organizational structure of the Boy Scouts, but I do know that only through speaking out will injustice be stopped. If we continue to hold our tongues we are no better than those that are abusing and stealing from out boys.

 

I can look to our forefathers for that life lesson. Thomas Jefferson made it clear that those in position of power must be overthrown periodically because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

Even if no one else is willing to step forward and help take back the BSA, I will not allow the PAID BSA to continue to hide behind deception. Knowledge is power and the PAID BSA has been using the ignorance of too many good people to their benefit and the detriment of our boys. It is time to turn on the light and make a stand.

[John-in-KC]

I am very blessed. Eagle Son is 18, and the strongest thing he's tried is the wine at the Lord's Supper.

 

Using drugs either under the proper age floor or when they are outright illegal is wrong. There are no two ways to say that.

 

Now, what should the consequences be?

 

If it had been my son, I would want...

 

- The Troop or Venturing Crew to yank him from any position of responsibility he held.

- Time stopped and the counter re-set for Scout Spirit. Like Beavah said, if he's using it at a Troop function, he's probably using it somewhere else. He's not doing his duty "to his Country." He's not "trustworthy."

- Me, as his parent, required to attend any meetings and outings he participates in.

 

I asked Eagle Son about this... he reminded me he got an underage Camp Staffer fired because that young man was smoking a cigarette of tobacco. His take is less tolerant than mine, if the Scout has any leadership POR, he should be "flat out gone."

 

 

[Rikki12]

Beavah, there is always a first time for everything, otherwise there could never be a second time. And luckily, the ignorance of not having done it before is what led to this boy being found out.

 

But you have made your position clear. Without knowing this boy, you have become judge, jury, and executioner. The Executive Scout refuses to talk to the parents, refuses to state exactly what the boy is being charged with, and is spreading verbal information very different from what the parents were told by camp management and at the time the parents picked the boy up.

 

The parents have only received a letter stating the local council received information that compelled them to revoke his membership and that appeals were to be made to regional. Regional would then review them behind closed doors and the parents could not attend. Attempts to get answers have failed. They have only been told that rumors have been heard and that there is no documentation at all.

 

Two certified letters have been sent to the local and regional councils asking for the charges and for copies of policies and bylaws, but the wall of silence is impenatrible. Yes, what the boy did was wrong, but unlike the leaders of the local and regional councils, he stood up and admitted his mistake and has made efforts to make good come out of his wrong doing. Forfeiting his leadership position is a valid price. Not only are the parents and boys of his troop writing letters on his behalf, but so are those of other troops. Everyone recognizes that removing him from boy scouts not only hurts him, but the other troop members as well. It teaches them that if they make a mistake (as many youths will), they should not take responsibility and should make every effort to hide their indiscretion. This boy is highly regarded by the boys and parents of his troop and there is a fear that other boys that look up to him will leave the troop if this boy is removed. Excellent troop leaders and scout masters are questioning if they can continue to support an organization that does not stand behind its word and operates in secrecy. This troop has the best reputation in the area and many boys go out of their way to join it. By losing the leaders that have made this troop what it is, the entire community would lose.

 

And I am sorry, but hiding behind the line that it is a private organization and they can kick out anyone they want for any reason or no reason does not inspire confidence in the organization. It is definitely not what Baden Powell envisioned and it is hypocritical of the organization to invoke his name for its own nefarious purpose.

[packsaddle]

Hello again newly disillusioned one,

Since I am not paid for my involvement with the boys, I guess that should give me a little higher status in your view so I'll try to share what little I know and understand. I also no longer have a family member in a unit so I think I may be a little more detached than some others in my view of the organization.

 

First, if you are searching for something that comes closer to the ideal that you describe, you can find an alternative worth considering by searching through the messages in these forums that have been communicated by Kudu. The Baden Powell scouts may well meet the worthy qualities that you seek. I am, myself, tempted to take a go at it.

My temptation is borne from similar disillusionment. BSA probably does not have specific policies or guidelines to address precisely instances such as you have written. Given that they are an 'our way, or the highway' kind of organization, it would be to their disadvantage to have such specific policies as it would remove the complete discretion they have at present to dispose of us as they see fit. To reflect what Beavah just wrote in part, it is most likely that you are not going to get satisfaction in this fight because you are in a losing position by virtue of the way BSA is organized, if nothing else. Because a crime was involved, you will not be given the time of day by the news media and, worse, the most you could probably do is tarnish the unit, not BSA, in the eyes of the public. You have no legal grounds for action and even if BSA DID have specific policies that apply to this situation, they could ignore them or change them to their liking because BSA is a private club. You might think that as members we have a say in its decisions but the reality is that, for the most part, we don't.

 

BSA probably started out as an organization that met your goals. Somewhere along the line it grew to a large organization. I have never seen a large organization where the people at the top were not heavily invested in issues regarding money. BSA is no exception. As Rush Limbaugh says, it is all about money - but money is not the problem. The policies of BSA have also changed over the years and there have been long arguments over the factors contributing to those changes as well as to the merits of the changes, or lack thereof.

 

In your case you have an immediate problem in that, according to your account, a boy has been unfairly ejected. The ultimate problem for you is that you are powerless to address this injustice. Regardless of the status of the immediate problem, the second one is absolutely true, as I understand it. You're done. The money you contributed is gone. If you feel it was wasted, there's nothing to be done. The illusion will never return and life, for you or the boy, will never be the same. My advice is to try to use the experience to grow.

Look on the bright side. You are no longer living in an illusion. You have unmasked the organization and learned far more about it than the average person. You are now free to say anything you like because they can't touch your lives further. You are now free to contribute to an alternative, more worthy, charity if you see fit, where you had contributed erroneously to one that you unknowingly disagreed with. The boy is completely free to discover other activities from a myriad of alternatives. Life is good. The best way to react to jerks who have tried to hurt you...is to live well. So live well.

 

It is time to collect your thoughts and your notes. Carefully create a file. Study the options. Try to find an alternative that meets your needs. Bide your time, if you want, to join the feeding frenzy if an opportunity arises for you to exact revenge. But above all, I wish you and the boy the best of futures. And those good futures are out there for you. Good luck.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Rikki, it's hard as a parent when one of our kids has to face consequences for his actions.

 

There's good and bad ways to handle it, though. The good ways generally involve helpin' a lad take responsibility and accept consequences, even ones which are hard. Fact is, most youth programs are going to take a pretty dim view of illegal drug use. That's going to get a kid kicked out of any camp, get kicked off any school sports team, etc. Especially now that you seem to be sayin' this was a summer camp incident and there were some confused issues about some kids supplyin' pot to other kids, the BSA response seems pretty "normal." As a parent, I sure as heck would expect a firm response to a youth leader smokin' pot on a trip, especially when Scouting tells me that my son will be to some extent supervised & led by those same youth leaders in his troop.

 

Honestly, I've got a fair bit of sympathy for your more general complaints about the corporate BSA. It does have its downsides and weaknesses. We all can tot off inanities like the Chicago Council mess and the Greater Alabama and Atlanta membership fraud cases, or the Idaho child abuse shuffle. I'll even agree that some SE's have been abusing the "drop someone's membership" option in recent years.

 

To my ears, though, your passion over this particular incident is drivin' a really emotional argument, not a rational one. Get the kid some help for his drug use. Let him see that drug use has consequences that even his parents can't control. That's an OK lesson, hard as it is. There are other extracurricular opportunities to join and grow from, provided he learns that lesson.

 

As you say, though, I don't know the kid or the other players, so that's just how it's looking to me from afar. Feedback is a gift you are free to discard.

 

Beavah

 

[Rikki12]

PackSaddle,

 

Thank you for the words of wisdom and your human heart. I do not seek revenge. I see a problem and want to fix it. Nothing gets under my skin more than those that act holier-than-thou while hiding their own indiscretions.

 

Boy Scouts is not just something this boy does, it is in his bones. There are no words to describe how special this troop is and the leaders and other boys are family to this boy in everyway that counts. Losing this group would be like the death of a family member. No matter how hard you try or what you do, there is still going to be a negative emotional and psychological impact that this boy will have to live with forever. Most will do what they can to help through this transition period, but the loss will still be significant.

 

I will pass on the thought about Baden Powell Scouters and I think there was talk about the Civil Air Patrol.

 

I can't believe how many people I have recommended Boy Scouts to over the years, especially for boys that I work with that have ADHD / ADD. Impulsive actions are a struggle for these boys and there is medical evidence to back up the physical basis for this condition. To punish a boy for his disability is like hanging someone for being left-handed. Wait a minute, they did that in the Middle Ages, didn't they? I guess the human race hasn't come very far after all, has it. What was it Jesus said? "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do?"

 

I guess all I can do is wait to see how many truly believe in what Boy Scouts stands for and is willing to take a stand to make a difference. When the National site says their objective is to mentor and guide boys, to work with parents of boys that make mistakes and help them find their way, then that is what I expect to see. If the PAID BSA cannot be trusted (as in Trustworthy) to follow their own words, and their loyalty (as in Loyal) is only on the surface, then they are not the kind of people American boys should be associated with. But God, in whatever form you believe, will deal with them some day.

 

In the meantime, I will endeavor to educate and warn others so that, perhaps, another boy will not have to learn such an ugly truth at such a vulnerable age.

[Beavah]

To punish a boy for his disability is like hanging someone for being left-handed.

 

Yah, OK. I gotta say I believe it is simply wrongheaded and darn poor parenting or educating to maintain that a boy is not responsible for his actions because he happens to be ADHD.

 

If this were really the case, then the boy should not participate in Scouting because of the safety risk he would pose to himself and others, being in an environment where impulsive actions can really hurt someone.

 

B