Where Is The ACLU?

[fgoodwin]

When I read the second article, it doesn't sound so bad. Still, one wonders why they can't teach Arabic kids in regular schools, but put them through ESL classes, like we do other non-English speaking kids.

 

As far as I know, we don't have separate schools for Polish kids, or Sudanese kids, or Honduran kids -- they all go the same schools and we teach them English.

 

Why should Arabic-speaking kids be treated any differently?

 

(by the way, "zero" wasn't invented by an Arabic mathematician -- they borrowed the concept from the Hindus who discivered it earlier; this is according to a DVD of Islam that I was watching last nite: "Islam: Empire of Faith", produced by PBS in 2000)

[evmori]

Well duh! I'd bet they will be teaching religion. I'd bet they will have prayer time.

 

Why couldn't a Christian school follow the same DOE curriculum as any other school?

 

Yep Trevorum some consider the Bible fiction. But the difference is 1984 has never been touted as being nothing more than a fiction novel.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

If they teach religion or have prayer time, the ACLU will get involved. But right now it's just rightwing hot air.

[LongHaul]

As for the "zero" thing the Mayans used the concept before the Indians but the Mayan concept never made it out of Mexico where as as fgoodwin states the Indian concept was used by other peoples.

LongHaul

[OldGreyEagle]

I gotta tell you, we do a lot of talking on the forum and some claim its all about nothing and then when we start to debate who originated the concept of zero, well I have to think maybe "they" are right...

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

It's all for naught.

[OldGreyEagle]

Does that make us naughty?

 

this is null and void... or is that redundant?

[evmori]

It aught naught be redundant.

[theysawyoucomin']

uz2bnowl writes:

Because the ACLU would NOT want to look prejudice in the eyes of the nation. It's always been ok to trash Christianity, remember the artist that threw elephant poop at Mary's picture?

 

 

Merlyn writes

 

No, but I remember when Roman Catholic artist Chris Ofili used elephant dung in his work "The Holy Virgin Mary," as he has used elephant dung in nearly all his works since he staying in Zimbabwe for six weeks, but on what possible basis could the ACLU object? Something made by an artist using his own money, and the ACLU is supposed to do what, exactly? The first amendment protects that.

 

Crucifix in the clear beaker of urine?

 

Same questions for Serrano's "Piss Christ"; what has that got to do with the ACLU?

 

That's all "art".

 

"Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... now you tell me what you know."

-- Groucho Marx in Animal Crackers.

 

A moment of silence in school is offensive. Saying Merry Christmas is offensive.

 

OK, now you're just babbling. Are you trying to imply that these are official ACLU positions, or are you just stringing phrases together in the hope it will magically form an argument?

 

A foot washing station is o.k. because it is diverse and multi-cultural.

 

That's not what the ACLU said, but since you obviously aren't interested in real information, why bother?

 

Hey, Merlyn who died and made you the person who decides what's relative?

 

Nobody. I have my opinions are argue them forcefully, and I actually look up information instead of making up crap. This can be a very effective way to 1) argue, and 2) accomplish things. You might want to try it sometime.

 

There's more garbage on the politics area of this site than one can imagine.

 

You're certainly holding your own in that department.

 

You're not tolerant of Christians

 

Sorry, now you're lying. For one thing, I've been married to a Christian for 19 years now. For another, I consistently argue for equal treatment of people regardless of religion.

 

or this article yet you want us to accomodate you and your views.

 

No, I DEMAND accomodation and equal treatment, and I've stated before that I would defend that up to and including deadly force if I thought it was necessary.

 

You want to change the views of 4 million Scouts and get rid of the DRP.

 

I'd hardly have to change the views of all 4 million scouts because a fair number of them think the BSA's religious discrimination is pointless and idiotic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Merlyn if the poop slinger did it all with his own money and Me and the ACLU (perish the thought yeck in the same sentence)have no dog in the fight, then by extension if the Scouts are no longer in reciept of public favors (real or imagined). They are a private institution using private money then why do you care if they don't allow non beleivers? It's all private just like the poop flinger.

 

[local1400]

Fred wrote "As far as I know, we don't have separate schools for Polish kids, or Sudanese kids, or Honduran kids, they all go to the same schools and we teach them english." Well Fred, (and I am not picking on you here, but the "system") yes, these kids from non-english speaking countries do attend our public schools, but learning english is not something they do. School districts need to hire, at taxpayers expense, dozens of interpreters to communicate with these kids so they don't have to endure the humiliation of learning the language of the country they live in. Many of these kids are US citizens too, on account of Mom illegally entering the US whilst with child, whelping here, and enjoying the benefits of one of the biggest and dumbest loopholes in the immigration system. The Portland, ME school dept. once boasted 'they speak 62 languages in the school system'. In America? Hey, we were all immigrants, and we should actually be speaking in a Native tongue, but our ancestors came here and actually learned the language spoken here so they could fit in and become productive members of society. Sorry to hijack this thread, but I do get tired of using fingers to order a coffee or quick meal on the run.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

uz2bnowl, you aren't making any sense. The ACLU gets involved if and when:

1) they know about some incident

2) the incident appears to violate someone's civil rights

3) the ACLU has enough resources (money, lawyers, etc) to allocate some to the incident

4) the incident appears to be "winnable" in some way

 

If they don't know about a particular incident, they obviously can't do anything about it. If they know about it, but in their opinion no rights have been violated, they probably won't do anything. If they don't have the resources, they might want to do something, but simply can't. And in some cases they may think a case too difficult to win.

 

Many of your bizarre questions involved no civil rights violations. Some did, but you don't seem to be interested in any real discussion, you just want to try and trash the ACLU.

 

If the BSA only uses its own money, they will, by and large, avoid lawsuits. They will not avoid criticism.

[evmori]

Don't think it's rightwing propaganda! I'd bet they will be praying!

 

And why should they hava their own public school? Why can't Catholics or Baptists or Jews have their own public school?????

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

Perhaps I missed it, Ed, but I didn't see any mention of keeping non-Muslims out of this school - which suggests to me that "they" do not have "their own" public school any more than the majority Christian religions have "their own" public schools everywhere else around the country.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about setting up schools that are designed to appeal predominately to one minority or another. I think it is a terrible shame that such a place is needed (at least, in the eyes of enough people to get it set up). But I think that those of us who are not in whatever minority is being discussed could at least consider why "they" want this program? Seems to me that part of the answer is that "they" are not treated particularly well in "our" schools. Perhaps "we" have given "them" the impression that schools are, in fact, established and run along the cultural lines of whatever group is dominant in the school. Living as I do in an area with one of the largest Middle Eastern and South Asian populations in the United States, I know this to be true from daily experience. And oddly enough, although a good portion of the M.E. and South Asian population around here is Christian (mostly Maronite), people still make all sorts of ridiculous assumptions about who they are. If your kid were subjected to being called a "terrorist" by those sweet little (majority) evangelical kids every day at school based on the fact that your child had ancestors from somewhere other than Northern Europe, and your child's social studies teachers knew less than nothing about the Middle East or South Asia yet some of them proclaimed to the class that "terrorism is just part of the way of life there, what can you expect" (and other, similar baloney), then you too might want to withdraw to a school where people had a clue.

 

But at the end of the day, it would certainly be better if people felt no need to withdraw behind the walls of "their own" culture, sure. Too bad it doesn't appear to work that way.

 

 

[fgoodwin]

For the record, I am half-Japanese. I was born in Japan, but moved to the US at an early age.

 

When my mother and I came to the states, we didn't speak any English. But by the time I started school, I had forgotten all of my Japanese and spoke only English. No one offered English lessons to me or my mother, other than those she had taken as a youth in school back in Japan. I learned it simply by osmosis.

 

We were thrown into a new culture and forced to learn the language and culture if we were to survive. We did so and survived quite nicely without a separate support system of teachers speaking in Japanese while we learned English. Foreigners coming here now have it much easier than we did back in the mid-50s.

 

Because of my own background, I can understand and sympathise with the plight of non-English speakers coming to the US. But I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who cry discrimination and want everything written or spoken to them in their native langauge. In my view, if you're going to move to and live in the US, that means you need to learn English and assimilate into our culture.

 

Lack of English and clinging to your old culture means you'll have a much harder time fitting-in and a much greater likelihood of unemployment (or low-wage employment). Then those same folks turn around and claim the "system" is against them and holding them back?

 

While I can see the value of culture-specific schools like the one at issue, I also have to look back and wonder why recent new-comers can't assimilate the same way generations of immigrants did before them?

 

Things like this Arabic school make it harder to maintain the "melting pot" that has made the US so successful over the last 200+ years.

[evmori]

And non-Catholics can attend Catholic schools, but Catholic schools are private and this school is public. Why should tax dollars support a Muslim school?