Where Is The ACLU?

[fgoodwin]

Where Is The ACLU?

 

http://www.nysun.com/article/60520

 

By ALICIA COLON

August 15, 2007

 

Now that Dhabah aka Debbie Almontaser has resigned as the principal-designate of the Khalil Gibran International Academy and has been replaced by a Jewish woman, Danielle Salzberg, some assume the opposition to the school itself is over. That supposition would be false. Commenting on the new principal, the Stop Madrassa Community Coalition released this statement: "Salzberg is completely implicated in Almontaser's radical designs for KGIA. She should be permitted to return to New Visions to work on other schools, and KGIA should not open in September."

 

The demand for information from the Department of Education continues. The big question is why isn't the ACLU involved in this issue?

 

The last I heard, this legal civil liberty organization was seeking removal of a cross in a Louisiana courtroom and threatening a lawsuit in Connecticut because a public school was using a cathedral for its commencement ceremony. Meanwhile New York has created an Arabic public school which has several religious clerics on the advisory board. That's as incongruous as if the city had established a Gaelic school with Cardinal Egan on the Board.

 

The New York Sun has been reporting the existence of this school since March 16th when our education columnist Andrew Wolf wrote, "The city's Department of Education is wrong in establishing any school that focuses exclusively on one culture." In April, Daniel Pipes warned that a Madrassa was growing in Brooklyn and by the time my May column calling it a monstrous idea appeared, a grassroots community group seeking to end this project was formed. Stop the Madrassa Community Coalition sent a Freedom of Information Law request to the governor and the mayor. One of the representatives, Sara Springer, went on the "Hannity & Colmes" program to explain that the DOE had not responded to requests for information on the proposed curricula or why the school has a religious advisory board. Another panelist on the cable show was Hussein Ibish, executive director of the Hala Salaam Maksoud Foundation for Arab-American Leadership, who supports the school and asserted that the coalition's Web site, www.stopmadrassa.wordpress.com, was filled with bigotry and hatred. In her resignation, Ms. Almontaser said the critics' "intolerant and hateful tone has come to frighten some of the parents and incoming parents." It's so easy to toss that word, "hate" when confronted by opposition to one's agenda but I found nothing on that Web site or in any of the critics' (who include Diane Ravitch and Randi Weingarten) statements that compares to the fury of supporters of the school. Once my column was quoted by the New York Times, I received what can only be described as evil correspondence condemning me in vivid detail to the same fate as certain Holocaust victims. It certainly made me wonder what kind of person still reads the New York Times. Reuters also accused me of inflaming Islamophobia. That was a mild curse, but Reuters is hardly a credible news source anymore since they were once again caught using fake photographs to illustrate their news.

 

All parties agree that we do need more Arab language instruction, if only for our national security. When I was in high school during the Cold War, our school offered Russian as an after-school program. Ms. Springer told me, "Students should take languages as electives. Our American way of life, principles, and Constitution cannot be allowed to dissolve in multiculturalism and sensitivity training."

 

The question is, where is the ACLU? If a cross is anywhere to be found on public property, the ACLU will file a case to have it removed. Yet, clearly, this zeal is nonexistent when it involves Islam.

 

The University of Michigan-Dearborn is spending $25,000 to build footbaths for Muslim students. In San Diego, an experimental school, Carver Elementary, has morphed into one with accommodations for Muslim prayers and dietary needs not previously made for Christian and Jewish students. In San Francisco, the Bryon Union School District held a three week "How to be a Muslim" program wherein students prayed to Allah and took Islamic names. When the case was taken to court, the liberal Ninth Circuit ruled for the school.

 

Perhaps the ACLU requires someone to initiate the complaint and atheists only seem interested in targeting Christian artifacts. Exactly what is it about the religion of peace that makes it immune from litigious nonbelievers?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Fred, what does this have to do with scouting?

[fgoodwin]

The link in the original article is wrong: it should be:

 

http://stopthemadrassa.wordpress.com/

 

In any event, I admit this post isn't directly Scouting-related. But I think it is relevant to some of the discussions we've had in this Forum re: religious freedom and public support (via taxes) of religion.

 

And admittedly, this is an opinion piece. If others can find objective news articles about the situation, please post them.

 

Finally, if, in the moderators' view, this is simply too far afield of actual Scouting relevance, then by all means close or delete the thread.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Fred, I haven't seen you HAVE a discussion about church/state issues; you're mostly just post-and-run. Now you're just parroting extreme right-wing claptrap.

[theysawyoucomin']

Because the ACLU would NOT want to look prejudice in the eyes of the nation. It's always been ok to trash Christianity, remember the artist that threw elephant poop at Mary's picture? Crucifix in the clear beaker of urine?

 

That's all "art".

 

 

A moment of silence in school is offensive. Saying Merry Christmas is offensive.

 

A foot washing station is o.k. because it is diverse and multi-cultural.

 

 

Hey, Merlyn who died and made you the person who decides what's relative? There's more garbage on the politics area of this site than one can imagine.

 

You're not tolerant of Christians or this article yet you want us to accomodate you and your views. You want to change the views of 4 million Scouts and get rid of the DRP.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

uz2bnowl writes:

Because the ACLU would NOT want to look prejudice in the eyes of the nation. It's always been ok to trash Christianity, remember the artist that threw elephant poop at Mary's picture?

 

No, but I remember when Roman Catholic artist Chris Ofili used elephant dung in his work "The Holy Virgin Mary," as he has used elephant dung in nearly all his works since he staying in Zimbabwe for six weeks, but on what possible basis could the ACLU object? Something made by an artist using his own money, and the ACLU is supposed to do what, exactly? The first amendment protects that.

 

Crucifix in the clear beaker of urine?

 

Same questions for Serrano's "Piss Christ"; what has that got to do with the ACLU?

 

That's all "art".

 

"Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... now you tell me what you know."

-- Groucho Marx in Animal Crackers.

 

A moment of silence in school is offensive. Saying Merry Christmas is offensive.

 

OK, now you're just babbling. Are you trying to imply that these are official ACLU positions, or are you just stringing phrases together in the hope it will magically form an argument?

 

A foot washing station is o.k. because it is diverse and multi-cultural.

 

That's not what the ACLU said, but since you obviously aren't interested in real information, why bother?

 

Hey, Merlyn who died and made you the person who decides what's relative?

 

Nobody. I have my opinions are argue them forcefully, and I actually look up information instead of making up crap. This can be a very effective way to 1) argue, and 2) accomplish things. You might want to try it sometime.

 

There's more garbage on the politics area of this site than one can imagine.

 

You're certainly holding your own in that department.

 

You're not tolerant of Christians

 

Sorry, now you're lying. For one thing, I've been married to a Christian for 19 years now. For another, I consistently argue for equal treatment of people regardless of religion.

 

or this article yet you want us to accomodate you and your views.

 

No, I DEMAND accomodation and equal treatment, and I've stated before that I would defend that up to and including deadly force if I thought it was necessary.

 

You want to change the views of 4 million Scouts and get rid of the DRP.

 

I'd hardly have to change the views of all 4 million scouts because a fair number of them think the BSA's religious discrimination is pointless and idiotic.

[evmori]

No, I DEMAND accomodation and equal treatment, and I've stated before that I would defend that up to and including deadly force if I thought it was necessary.

 

I hope you meant equal accommodation. I demand the same. Only your demands infringe on my rights.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

"Finally, if, in the moderators' view, this is simply too far afield of actual Scouting relevance, then by all means close or delete the thread. "

 

If that was the policy, we'd free up a lot of bandwidth, but this forum would be decimated.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Yes Ed, the same accommodation as everyone else. However, you keep citing instances of equal treatment and crying that it's infringing on your rights, like your imaginary "right" to have public schools run private BSA units.

[evmori]

OK Merlyn, why hasn't the ACLU gotten involved in the issues in the 1st post of this thread? You seem to understand how they operate better than anyone so please enlighten us.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually the thread I started on the Deep Purple and Steppenwolf concert I went to didn't have much to do with scouting either but no one objected. There were a few responses and the forum moved on.

 

If a topic does not resonate with the members, it fades from view and we move on, thats what we want to have happen

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Daniel Pipes is the one who started this "stop the madrassa" ball rolling, and he's got a history of grossly distorting facts. Remember a few years ago when people (including Pipes) were screaming about the Byron Union School District having students roleplaying Muslims, saying Muslim prayers, learning the five pillars of Islam, etc? That actually went to court, and a three-judge panel of the 9th circuit looked at what was really going on, and said there was no indoctrination and no first amendment violation. What does Pipes write? "Courts: OK to Proselytize for Islam in California Schools": http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/135

 

He's a kook, and people like Alicia Colon and Fred Goodwin who propagate his idiocy are fools.

[evmori]

He's a kook, and people like Alicia Colon and Fred Goodwin who propagate his idiocy are fools.

 

And Mr. Croft who bases his beliefs on a fiction novel isn't?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, you're one for distorting facts too; "In an interview last year, he said he lost faith in Christianity, what he calls the "supernatural," after reading 1984 in high school." That does not say he "based his beliefs on it."

[Trevorum]

Merlyn, I have not met Alicia Colon, but I know Fred Goodwin and he's certainly not a "fool". An apology would be courteous - but is not expected.