Dad crusades against God in school

[evmori]

Ya know what they say, ya poke a pig enough & it will squeal!

 

How is whining & complain about a teacher wearing a college shirt going through the proper channels?

 

This says it all

 

In an interview last year, he said he lost faith in Christianity, what he calls the "supernatural," after reading 1984 in high school.

 

Get out the tin foil hats!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No. If you want to debate, debate here. True, "tone" is missing, but having every line of an argument written down is helpful in other ways.

 

For example, you keep saying you're surprised by my position, as if it's changed. Yet you haven't posted anything I've said that would suggest I'm against religious freedom, so I have no idea what you're referring to. My position on religious freedom hasn't changed appreciably during the six years I've been posting to scouter.com. Here, you can QUOTE everything I've ever written, to identify what you see in my position as in conflict with religious freedom.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, complaints are usually the first proper channel if a parent has an issue about a teacher wearing a shirt that promotes religion (or atheism, for that matter). Oh, Croft is overreacting, but your description that he's using "terrorist tactics" by going through proper channels isn't? You've been frothing at the mouth throughout this whole thread. Try posting without using exclamation points, they only bring out your wingnuttery.

[OldGreyEagle]

It used to be that the forum was full of people calling other people Nazi'z or accusing people of using "Gestapo" tactics. So now we will call each other Terrorists or accuse each other of using terroristic tactics. Can we stop with the emotional platitudes?

 

I was trying to explain how not mentioning God implies an endorsement of Atheism, but instead I got off on a side trip. If a student does well on a test at school is it ok for their Hindu teacher to tell him, "Praise Vishnu you did well?" Or his Islamic teacher to say "Praise Allah you did well?" or his Buddhist teacher to say "Praise Buddha you did well?" or his Christian teacher to say "Praise Jesus you did well? and his Atheist teacher to say, "Hey Bobby, you did well? Are not all a method of congratulating the student, while also advocating a religious point of view? Would anyone have a problem with a student hearing any of the above?

 

(disclaimer, if my posts offends any belief section, that was not intended)

[Gonzo1]

exclamation points, they only bring out your wingnuttery.

 

Now THAT's good.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

OGE writes:

I was trying to explain how not mentioning God implies an endorsement of Atheism

 

Oh, well I disagree. See my earlier questions on whether teaching 2+2=4 is teaching atheism if gods are not mentioned.

 

is it ok for their Hindu teacher to tell him, "Praise Vishnu you did well?" etc

 

Of course not. The only proper one is your misnamed "atheist" one, "Hey Bobby, you did well", but that's not atheistic. If the teacher pointed out that Billy (who did poorly) prayed and it didn't help him, that could be characterized as atheistic, and would also be inappropriate.

 

Are not all a method of congratulating the student, while also advocating a religious point of view?

 

What religious POV is your atheist advocating by saying "Hey Bobby, you did well"? Are all teachers that use such phrases atheists in your view?

[evmori]

I guess we shouldn't be surprised by Merlyn's defense of Mr. Croft. After all, both want nothing more than the removal of God from everything at any cost! But let's not complain about it because we might be trampling on the rights of those who don't believe in God. Well what about the rights of us who do believe in God? Guess they don't matter.

 

Maybe I should re-read 1984. I musta missed a great epiphany somewhere!

 

Yeah Merlyn complaining is OK but complain about something worthwhile! A teacher wearing a college shirt! A flier sent home about a Bible Club! The Scouts are allowed to meet in the school! Barricade the doors! The end is near!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed lies:

After all, both want nothing more than the removal of God from everything at any cost!

 

Stop lying, Ed. And you're still frothing at the mouth.

[Lisabob]

OGE, an interesting example but it really puts things in a different light if every comment a teacher makes has to be prefaced by a reference to their specific religion in order to avoid being "atheist."

 

In talking with students, I've been known to say things like "Hey Bobby, you did well" any number of times. To me, this just is not a context where religion makes sense to bring in, and my lack of religious reference does not mean I'm promoting atheism - it simply means (to me) that religion doesn't play any role in this particular conversation.

 

Besides, as a teacher you really never know what your students' belief systems are (most of the time). So suppose for a moment that I'm Christian and "Bobby" is Muslim. How exactly should I navigate that? Praise ???, you did well?

[OldGreyEagle]

Ed, I can't say I agree alot with what Merlyn says or thinks but I would like to know where he has espoused removing God from everywhere. He doesnt want public money spent advocating any religious belief or to have governmental units chartering scout units (charter as in run/own them, they can meet in the facilities following the same rules that any other organization follows)

 

Merlyn in this thread has said that he has no problem with private citizens putting up Menorahs or Nativity scenes so I am not sure how you can claim he wants to remove God from everywhere.

 

 

Merlyn, you are obviously a smart guy, who is consistent in his message. You don't want public money supporting anything religious. But I have to ask why such a smart guy gets entangled with spitting contests with Ed when clearly by now you know the route that such contests go. You have mentioned many times that Ed can't learn, why do you persist in trying to learn him?

 

I commented to one poster that at times I wished you guys would start acting like Christians, but I am not sure that is the answer, then I thought maybe if I asked you to act like scouts, but that's not the answer either. How about sticking to the topic at hand and leaving out the personal jabs?

[skeptic]

This whole tangent is ridiculous. Ed, you seem to not understand that Merlyn will never agree with anything that you say, and he will continue to bait you with his inflamatory comments as long as you respond. On the other hand, at times it seems as if you too are baiting him, as he tends to rant to the extent it is almost comical at times. Eventually though, it just gets old.

 

Perhaps it is time to simply block each other so that neither of you will feel the need to be overboard at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

Just MHO.

 

To me, the point is that there are a few individuals who feel that they have the license to provoke trouble over things that are really not worth worrying about. And, the fact that the PC environment that we live in bows to their threats and pettiness is simply sad. If our legal system would be changed to make foolish or nonsensical lawsuits cost the person bringing them, we would see far fewer threats by unreasonable or devious people working the system.

 

Please do not respond here to flame me, or do so privately either. I will not respond.

[evmori]

When in doubt, resort to name calling.

 

If Merlyn was for religious freedom, he would have no problem with nativity display beside a Christmas tree on the courthouse lawn. But the Christmas tree stays & the nativity has to go because someone's rights are violated! What about the rights of those who want the nativity display? They don't matter. And how is allowing a nativity display on the courthouse lawn endorsing a religion? But I guess it really doesn't matter since a Christmas tree is a Christian symbol, too. It's just more widely accepted as a secular one.

 

I'm surprised you use American currency, Merlyn! It's kinda hypocritical since the words "In God We Trust" is on it!

 

OGE,

 

I really don't care if Merlyn ever agrees with me. I know I will never agree with him either.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed writes:

When in doubt, resort to name calling.

 

Like "terrorist tactics"; I didn't call you a name, I stated quite accurately that you were lying. That isn't namecalling.

 

If Merlyn was for religious freedom, he would have no problem with nativity display beside a Christmas tree on the courthouse lawn.

 

Sorry Ed, you don't get to define for me what "religious freedom" means. In my book, it does not include having the government promote religions.

 

But that isn't what you were lying about, because what "religious freedom" means is a matter of opinion.

 

You lied when you said I "want nothing more than removal of God from everything at any cost"

 

Churches, for just one example, can have their gods plastered all over them, and I have no problem with that.

 

What about the rights of those who want the nativity display?

 

Fine, put one up on your own property. I'll put up what displays I want on my property. Equal rights are so predictable.

 

I'm surprised you use American currency, Merlyn! It's kinda hypocritical since the words "In God We Trust" is on it!

 

It's hypocritical of the government to assert it's meaningless, yes. I can hardly avoid using it, though I can cross it off paper money. Does the Freemason imagery on dollar bills bother you, Ed? You seem to be the kooky paranoid type that thinks the freemasons run everything.

[evmori]

Religious freedom means we as Americans have the right to worship what we want to worship or who we want to worship. A nativity display on the courthouse lawn is not endorsing any religion.

 

Crossing out "In God We Trust" is how you justify not being hypocritical? Ha!

 

Didn't lie Merlyn. I don't lie. Nor am I a hypocrite. My statement is my opinion of your methods. You don't get to decide how I view you.

 

The kicker is still how Mr. Croft decided he is an atheist - after reading the fiction novel 1984! Total farce!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

Well clearly my idea didnt work, any suggestions on how to stem the Ed/Merlyn smackdown?