TSA not just in Airports anymore

[LongHaul]

As some of you know or may have guessed by my user name I drive a truck. I got a letter today from the Secretary of State telling me I had to submit to a TSA finger print registration because I have a Hazardous Material certification on my CDL. Personally this does not effect me because I have a federal clearance certificate because I service airports so I went through a personal check and finger print registration years ago. I just find it another invasion of privacy put upon us through the patriot act and using the 911 excuse.

 "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Ben Franklin. This quote from the Poor Richard's Almanack of 1738 is often paraphrased as "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security" Ben where are you now when we need you?

LongHaul

[Gonzo1]

As having served in the military for 24 years, I see no reason why a finger print would hurt someone. My question would be "what do you have to hide?"

 

You don't HAVE to drive a truck, you choose to. You could do something else to keep your prints personal. Drive a forklift, sell insurance, work in a restaurant, do something else.

 

If it keeps us safe, give em the finger, er finger print.

[LongHaul]

As I said I gave them the fingers long time ago, photos references the works. It's always been a requirement to have unescorted access to air port terminals. It's not a question of having something to hide it's a matter of personal liberty. While in the military you had to carry a set of orders with you while in transit you want to do that as a civilian? What have you got to hide? Why not file travel papers before you leave just like a float plan? What say we use a system like a debit card where when you travel you swipe your card so the TSA knows where everyone is all the time. A crime is committed and they know who was in the area or was AWOL. Just how much liberty are you willing to relinquish to "feel" safe?

LongHaul

[Gonzo1]

LongHaul,

I suppose interstate commerce is the difference.

I agree that having the libert to move about freely is paramount in the USA. I don't want checkpoints where we would have to show papers anymore than you do. But, truckers do just, at weigh stations, right?

 

Now, conspiracy theorists say that big brother has all sorts of technology to see who is where and when. Someone told me once that big brother can 'scan" your house and "see" howmuch money is inside. If "they" feel it's too much, they bust in and look for money and drugs. I don't personally buy it.

 

Not trying to argue, but I don't see the problem with fingerprinting, but I gues you do. Not argueing.

[Eamonn]

I thought that the TSA granted all states and the District of Columbia the option to use the TSA Agent (HAZPRINT) to collect your biographical information, fingerprints, and fees or to do so by their own process.

So far Pennsylvania has not accepted the kind offer from the TSA (Unlike the 34 States and the District of Columbia) So Ben can rest in peace!

Ea.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Gonzo1, you may be right but the thought that goes through my mind after a career with the feds is, how much of this stuff is anything more than 'make-work' crap that politicians and bureaucrats think will sell well with the public? And how much of it really substantially increases our security?

As LongHaul says, his prints are already on record. So are mine. Yet, for any (or no) reason, if we want to carry on our lives, because the bureaucracy is too incompetent for one office to communicate with another, we'll have to jump through the same hoops again and again. The real measure of security, in my mind, would be how well really competent security personnel can access and share all that existing data, rather than waste time and resources making redundant unused copies. This administration, in it's tenure, has doubled the size of the federal government. I'd like to hear anyone argue that none of that increase is just bureaucratic bloat, driven by power politics or plain old cronyism.

 

You know, I get really warm and fuzzy every time I watch my 80-something mother-in-law get the full treatment...every time she flies somewhere, without exception. HEY, threat elminated there! The only threat she poses has something to do with a weight limit. But the TSA people chew their cud and give her a good feel every time, dutifully and mindlessly doing their dutiful and mindless routine.

 

I'm with LongHaul regarding the Patriot Act. It is a loss of personal freedom and I seriously doubt that when Dubya reads my email (you can kiss it where the sun don't shine, George) any significant boost of national security results. The ongoing examination of our crooked attorney general is sad, given the unbridled power he has been given. But that's who's tapping into our private lives, thank you very much. He's demonstrating daily how all of them are above the law.

 

Another example of this thing is the call for a national identity card. What a load! We have and always have had a national identity card. It's called a passport and we've demonstrated quite nicely, thank you, how incompetent we are at supplying those to legitimate citizens in a timely manner. I doubt that any greater competence can be found around TSA...we're just lucky that the terrorists are so incredibly stupid so far. But making ANOTHER national identity card is definitely going to reduce our immigration and security risks...RIIIIIIGHT!

 

I guess it's the presumption that you expressed that bothers me the most. That any thought to the contrary is automatically incriminating. That's a legacy that might be the most damaging of all.

LongHaul, Ben Franklin would be apoplectic at what we're handing away. Great quote, I've thought of it often.

[LongHaul]

The point Eamonn is that it's a federal mandate, they can use TSA or do it themselves but they will do it. Yes Gonzo we do have check points across the country for weight and vehicle checks but this new mandate has nothing to do with interstate anything. It's directed at those of use that have a Hazardous Material certification. Hazmat includes many things but it does not include ammunition, explosives or things of that nature these are a separate gratification. Hazmat includes some food preservatives, paint, Coca Cola syrup! The designation depends on the amount you carry, you need Hazmat certification to carry a truck load of Coke syrup but not 1000 pounds. I could legally transport en ought fertilizer and fuel oil and what not to recreate Oklahoma City without hazmat certifications. This is IMO just an excuse to establish a data base, the operative wird being excuse.

LongHaul

[GernBlansten]

The terrorists hate us for our freedoms. If we don't give up our freedoms, the terrorists win. Or something like that.

[Gonzo1]

Coke syrup? C'mon, the only thing really hazardous about coca-cola is the phosphoric acid. I hope there is a separate certification for ammo.

 

I'll conceed that some things may be silly, like requiring fingerprints to transport coke syrup. I also think the Gov't is incompetent in some area like passport distribution and other things requiring red tape.

 

I haven't heard much about a national ID card, we already have state ID cards, it's a driver's license. You can obtain a state ID if you don't drive. I would be in favor os stream lining the license, like adding voter registration info to the card, hmmm, one photo, one vote, but that's another thread I'm sure.

 

Packsaddle,

I'm sorry the mother-in-law gets the full treatment. I'm all for profiling. If the attackers were middle eastern men between 17 and 40, that's who we should be watching out for, not little old ladies.

[John-in-KC]

Gonzo,

 

Did you mean to say "attackers continue to be"...

 

Even if we get women jihadists, the profile is still people of Middle Eastern descent 17-40...

[packsaddle]

I confess, I have mixed feelings regarding the searches of my mother-in-law.

On one hand I do love her dearly (she's a great cook) and I have contempt for thoughtless wastes of time that I observe at airport security. She actually HAS legal documents that are supposed to allow her to go through security without these searches (metallic joint replacements). The oafs in TSA either can't read or else they can't think...either way they do ignore the documents that TSA itself issued for her.

 

On the other hand, she IS a mother-in-law and so I have just a twinge of delight when, to her consternation and with documents in hand, those mindless oafs send her to the pat-down area. Along with all the other blue-haired ladies that also seem to get 'the treatment'. I mean you never know what they might have squirreled away in those support hose...yeah, I think maybe a cavity search just might be in order too.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[LongHaul]

Yes Gonzo Coke syrup, it's flammable. If you ever get a chance to look at one of the boxes the stuff comes in you will see a red diamond with a number 3 in the bottom. Get into a wreck with 40,000 lbs. of that stuff and a little diesel and you can cook a lot of marshmallows.

LongHaul

[hops_scout]

A friend of ours has got a lot of Native American in him, I believe nearly full Cherokee. Somehow we had gotten onto this topic at a graduation party; he said everytime he goes to the airport he gets pulled aside. But he said he's got absolutely no problems with it. He says if they think it's going to "keep America protected" that's fine.

 

This is same guy who in 2003 when the build up for Iraq and the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom was going on, he tried enlisting anywhere he could. They wouldn't let him and he was really disappointed. That was at age 50!

[BrotherhoodWWW]

As a Fleet Manager by profession and a former driver I can attest to the facts of the matter. Coke and Pepsi syrup are classified hazmat. Flamables and corrosives. The same hazmat endorsement is needed for any hazard class. There are differences in the amount and types of training required to haul certain classes and special record keeping for some hazmat. The background check costs driver's in my area $100 and takes up to 6 weeks for which the do not get any more pay per load. For driver's that also have similiar background checks done i.e. concealed weapons permits, reserve law enforcememnt, the check is still required. IMHO this will not increase safety any at all. Someone with felonious intention will still be able to steal a hazmat ladden truck and crash it into a building wounding or killing lots of people.

 

It goes further than this. International ports are requiring a seperate background check in addition to the hazmat check. All this does is makes elected officials warm and fuzzy and they have the ability to tell their voters that they have "done" something to help make our country safer!

 

I do not have anything to hide; if I did I would not have been involved in law enforcement or ever applied or received a CCW permit. I am not in support of these TSA mandated checks as I do not believe them usefull to keep our country safe. IMHO they only place more burdens on an over worked under paid occupation with almost no political clout.

[Gonzo1]

John-in-KC,

Yes I did.

 

Packsaddle,

I laughed so hard, my side hurts, that was grrreaaatt!!!

 

Hops,

There are many ways your friend can serve, even in uniform. He could volunteer with the USO at an airport. He could join the state defense force for his state. The Georgia State Defense Force is all volunteer, no pay (except in rare circumstances0 and good training. I'm not affiliated, but a friend of mine is.

 

(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)