Scouts Honor: One famous Logan Square building won’t go condo—at least for now

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

WE know, but not everyone knows, and the BSA still does not spell this out on their applications. James Dale didn't realize that gays weren't admitted until he was thrown out.

[TheScout]

It says "morally straight." Do you really expect the BSA to list all immoral activities?

 

Such would be a daunting task.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

When they issue charters to Unitarian Universalist churches that marry gays, the BSA needs to realize that not everyone agrees that being gay isn't "morally straight".

[DanKroh]

"Oh yeah, because we all [know] the policy says no gays."

 

TheScout, when my son and I joined, I knew of no such policy. In fact, I was show a *Council* non-discrimination policy that did *explicitly* say that they didn't discriminate based on religion or sexual orientation. However, this policy has since seemed to have disappeared from Council records, surprise, surprise.

 

"It says "morally straight." Do you really expect the BSA to list all immoral activities? Such would be a daunting task."

 

So then, they'll be banning EVERYONE who engages in any "immoral activities", will they? That would be a daunting task. Let's break out Leviticus (and then the holy writings of a bunch of other religions; we're non-sectarian, after all) and start making that list, because I doubt there will be any leaders left after that.

[TheScout]

Well it is certainly nice of you to tell the BSA what they "need" to do. I guess they are just "sloppy" in their language. Hey you have said before that Mr. Madison and Mr. Jefferson were sloppy in their language and corrected them. I guess nobody is clear enough for you, with the exception of the Supreme Court (and only the side of the opinion with which you agree).

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I haven't told them what they need to do, but what they need to realize; that not everyone considers homosexuality to be incompatible with "morally straight".

[TheScout]

Dan, I am sure you can acknowledge that there are different degrees of immorality. None of us our perfect. But the BSA realizes that there are certain lifestyles that they do not want to influence their members.

 

The logic of banning all immoral people from teaching morality would lead to nobody teaching morality anywhere. I do not think that is good for society.

 

Merlyn, yeah I guess that is the problem with individual thought. People interpret things differently. There is no big deal though. If anybody asks, the policy is now quite clear.

[DanKroh]

"Dan, I am sure you can acknowledge that there are different degrees of immorality. None of us our perfect. But the BSA realizes that there are certain lifestyles that they do not want to influence their members."

 

Yes, I acknowledge that. However, homosexuality isn't one of them in my book. The BSA assuming that everyone should know that "morally straight" means "not gay" seems a bit of stretch.

 

"People interpret things differently. There is no big deal though. If anybody asks, the policy is now quite clear."

 

Yeah, the policy is clear, if you know to go look on the BSA website and hunt it down among the press releases and legal documents. However, the "quite clear" policy exists no where on the BSA membership application. I wonder why that is?

[TheScout]

"Yes, I acknowledge that. However, homosexuality isn't one of them in my book."

 

The BSA and you have different morals. That is no big deal.

 

"Yeah, the policy is clear, if you know to go look on the BSA website and hunt it down among the press releases and legal documents."

 

The BSA website is not the primary source for information about the organization. Ask any local professional or comissioner and they will tell you the policy.

 

[DanKroh]

"The BSA and you have different morals. That is no big deal."

 

The BSA and a lot of other people have different morals. And it is kind of a big deal when the BSA is using *its* morals to exclude people that I would like to have in the organization.

 

"The BSA website is not the primary source for information about the organization. Ask any local professional or comissioner and they will tell you the policy."

 

I did, and I was shown a non-discrimination policy, which has since disappeared. The point is, your claim that "we all [know] the policy says no gays" is false, at least when joining, when it would be a rather important thing to know, both for people who are gay and for people who might not join because of that exclusion.

[GernBlansten]

Hmmm. When I joined, I didn't see the check box for sexual orientation.

If you are referring to the "morally straight" clause in the oath, is that to explicitly exclude "morally gay" folk? Or is it a general term that would be impossible to enforce unless specific immoral acts and behaviors are listed and called out. I think its that latter.

 

On the topic of morality, whose morality?

For a Catholic, its immoral to divorce. Should BSA recognize that as a qualifier to "morally straight"?

For a Muslim, eating pork is immoral.

Leviticus is quite the guide book to morality. Should we use that?

 

Here's one of my favorite pieces found on the internets....

 

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

 

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

 

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

 

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

 

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

 

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

 

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

 

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

 

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

 

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

 

 

[evmori]

Nice try Gern. Do you have any idea what the book of Leviticus is about?

[ASM857]

I believe we are trying to insert or views which as scouters is a non point. We are to look out for the welfare of the young men in our care, I do not condone or hate homosexuality. But I do believe as a father and leader that it is better to not stick the beast. what I'm saying is I feel more comftrable to send my First class Scout or my first year Webelos on an outing with this policy.

 

Thats my thoughts

YIS Doug