Troop Leader and Out -of-Wedlock Child

[fotoscout]

Not the greatest thing for a 22 year old female to be the scoutmaster. But, better to have an SM than to have no SM.

 

You chide her for having a baby.

You'd chide her for having an abortion.

You'd also chide her for placing the baby in daycare so that she could go to work or get an education.

 

I commend her for getting on with her life without shame or embarrassment! I am sure that the example she sets is a profound one.

[dan]

It seems that many who have posted it this thread are trying to place their morals and ethics on other people.

The only person that should be doing that is the CO.

[LongHaul]

An IMMORAL act can be made MORAL by preforming some post infraction ritual? Interesting

LongHaul

[SR540Beaver]

Forgiveness and redemption are meaningless without some sense of shame and repentance. The second half of that equation is what has gotten lost within our society. In an effort to feel sophisticated and enlightened, we want to tell people that whatever they do is AOK and not to let what others think have any effect on them. That attitude is the beginning of the end for a society.

 

Celebrating a young woman getting pregnant out of wedlock because she is somehow viewed as brave, strong or courageous is sending the wrong message to young men who we are supposed to be teaching how to make ethical choices or to "be prepared". Having to depend on family or social services to help you pay your bills because you short circuited your education and job possibilities by having a baby in tow is not a good message....no matter how tough or brave it makes you look. I know plenty of people with regrets who wish they could go back and change something they did that has a direct effect on their life today.

 

Taking the attitude that nothing wrong was done and that it doesn't set the wrong example is just wrong headed. Sure people deserve a second chance to pull themselves up by the boot straps and reprove themselves. But realizing that what they did was wrong and turning away from continuing on in whatever the infraction was is part of receiving that forgiveness and redemption.

 

Would we think it was OK to look the other way if the SM has 3 or 4 DUI's and gets drunk on campouts? What if he has a substance abuse problem and comes to meetings stoned? What if he is a shoplifter? What if he is a regular down at the local strip bar and parks his truck with the Troop ### tag on it?

 

Some actions have consequences beyond how they affect you personally.

[local1400]

SR540, I promise you I was only handing out some Bible tracts when you saw my Troop bus at that house of ill repute!(smiley face here--still can't make one)

[dan]

SR540Beaver

All of the examples except one that you posted are things that are illegal.

Their is no law that I am aware of that a 22 year old women that decided to have a baby, I do not know if this was a planned pregnancy BUT it could have been, that it is illegal. Her morals may tell her that it an acceptable thing to do.

 

Longhaul

I know parents that allow thier less than 13 year old children to watch PG13 and R rated movies, that is there morals and or ethics. Nothing illegal about it. Just something I would not allow my children to do.

 

[SR540Beaver]

Dan,

 

You are right, her personal morals may tell her it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. That doesn't mean that the society she lives in will feel the same way or have to accept it. Those who want to "do it their way" have to be willing to accept that others may disapprove and should not claim victim status for it. They made their own bed and have to lay in it.

 

I'm pretty much a libertarian on allowing people to do what they want, but I do expect them to realize that not everyone will think like them.

[GopherJudy]

Most parents get involved as leaders in Scouts because their children are in Scouts, that's how I got involved. I don't think a 22 year old female with a baby should be a SM because I don't think she can devote enough time to the troop. She's a single mom & I'm sure she's busy with her baby & work! Also, I don't think having anyone that young to be a SM is a good idea! I do think that a male that age that was in Boy Scouts from start to finish would probably do a fine job as an ASM because he has Scouting experience. If the female had a son in the troop, that would be a different story because she wants to be involved because her son is & she's older. I do think she would be a distraction to the boys, especially the boys just starting puberty! My son is 12.5 & the testosterone has been running rampant through him for over a year!

 

I'm a single mom, my husband died 10 years ago when my son was 2.5 years old & my daughter was 5.5 months old, so it's not an easy job. Babies require a lot of care & attention & I could not see how she could possibly do the job well. Also, it wouldn't be fair to the baby!

[scoutldr]

I have to agree with the others who are voting "NO". Sorry if it's unfair, because I don't know the young female, however one has to wonder WHY in the world a 22 year old single mom would WANT to be around young boys so much. My YP alarms would be going off.

[fotoscout]

SR540Beaver,

 

There will be a a five gallon pail of tar and bale of feathers at your doorstep tomorrow morning. Please feel free to use them as you deem appropriate.

 

Of course they won't really be there!(This message has been edited by fotoscout)

[Eagledad]

Wow Beav, your post is really good. I saw a similar discussion like this come up when a pack committee found that a CM was also a stripper. I was astonished that some folks felt it was none of the parents business that she strutted around naked every night to entertain men.

 

I have many times explained that young teens are highly influenced by the behaviors of those they respect. A SM is usually one of those persons by default. From a boys perspective, that person wouldnt be a SM if the community didnt think they were a good leader. Influenced? You bet.

 

Of course judging seems to be one of those things today that is becoming taboo. That is silly of course because we judge at judge at just about every moment of our life. Even those who say we shouldnt judge are judging those who say we shouldnt judge. It would be impossible to raise our kids if we didnt judge their every action and guide them toward the right actions. But there come a point to where we want to do things that, well society might not think so accepting. That is where our actions might get judged more harshly. There is a movement today to encourage turning and eye to such things so that we dont feel so bad about our less than accepted behaviors.

 

It is funny to me to read all the discussions in this part of the forum of how morals should not be based from religious teachings. There is usually little discussion of where morals should come from if religion isnt the source. I have often said it was my opinion that without God to be a source to point the needle of our moral compass, the guy with the biggest stick makes the rules. That is the struggle we see today in politics today I think. I read it here many times that it is the liberal left against the religious right. But lets be fair, in this "if youre not for us, then youre against us" all or nothing politics of today, it is the un-religious left against the religious right. It is a fight for Gods stick, dont you think?

 

So here we are in this discussion with our kids hanging in the balance. Our leader, the top Troop role model who our sons look up to for guidance for making moral decisions intended for our sons to have a better life as adults, has just got knocked up. And we are trying to decide if that is OK for our sons to think that is OK.

 

My sons are at that age now where they get to choose to make life and death decisions, even if it is just in fleeting moment of hot passion. If one day one of my sons walks in and ask his mother and me to sit down because he has something important he needs to talk about, I want so badly not to wonder if we did all that was possible to develop him into a man making the right moral decisions. Isnt that what we are talking about with this SM?

 

Barry

 

[BrentAllen]

foto,

Drop some tar and feathers off at my house as well - I agree completely with Beaver.

I wouldn't chide her for having a baby. I would chide her for having a baby out of wedlock. The child doesn't have any say in being brought into this world in the disadvantaged situation of not having both a father and a mother to raise him/her. She could rectify the situation by marrying the father, but the odds are that marriage won't last.

 

Beaver, thanks for stating that so well. The day we start (or started?) celebrating and glorifying bad decisions is the day we begin our demise as a society.

[Lisabob]

Brent writes: "She could rectify the situation by marrying the father, but the odds are that marriage won't last. "

 

This supposes, of course, that a) the father is willing and b) the circumstances were those that most of us probably are imagining (ie, that this was a consensual relationship to begin with).

 

I'm not arguing for or against allowing this person to remain as SM - I really think Beavah is correct that this is the CO's call, though as I've said, I think the CO fumbled in this case, given their lack of involvement in selecting leaders, and thus in making clear to potential leaders what their expectations were, to start with.

 

I'm just saying, we seem to be focused on what this young woman did, and how she might "fix" it, without much regard for the fact that any "fix" requires, at the least, the active consent of the other adult party in this deal. So easy to pass judgment without knowing what her other options were in that regard. Barry, sure, there are times when judging is actually important and valuable as a social or moral tool. But when done with extremely limited information, it can lead to false judgments too.

[Eagledad]

>>Barry, sure, there are times when judging is actually important and valuable as a social or moral tool. But when done with extremely limited information, it can lead to false judgments too.

[SR540Beaver]

Lisa,

 

You are correct about making judgements with limited information....but then we have folks saying that getting the information is none of our business in the first place and just ignore it.

 

(This is a general question and not pointed at Lisa.) Let me play devil's advocate. What possible scenario would make it OK and a proper moral example for a young, single, unmarried female in the SM role to get pregnant? I'm thinking about the same time a scenario would make it acceptable for a middle aged, married male in the SM role to bring his girlfriend he is having an affair with to the next campout.