UT Boy Scouts Settle Forest Fire Case for $6.5M

[Beavah]

Yah, I couldn't find da original threads this was in.

 

This settled at exactly the dollar amount I expected.

 

Beavah

 

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Will UT Boy Scouts Fined $6.5 Million For Forest Fire

 

SALT LAKE CITY Federal prosecutors have reached a $6.5 million settlement with the local chapter of the Boy Scouts over a June 2002 wildfire that burned 14,200 acres in the Uinta Mountains.

 

Insurance policies held by the Great Salt Lake Council through the national office of the Boy Scouts of America will pay the settlement, council spokesman Kay Godfrey said.

 

Federal prosecutors had sought more than $13.4 million from the Scouts to cover the costs of the fire, which was started by 17 Scouts ages 12 to 14 who were working on a wilderness survival badge at Camp Tomahawk.

 

The case was headed for trial in February, but was delayed when settlement negotiations began, said Melodie Rydalch, spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney for Utah.

 

We thought that this was a fair and just settlement, Rydalch said. Generally a settlement is not everything that everybody wants, its a compromise that brings resolution.

 

Godfrey declined further comment and said local council leaders planned to a formal response Wednesday.

 

A settlement agreement in a separate lawsuit with the state of Utah, the national Boy Scouts organization agreed to pay $330,000 and plant 9,000 seedlings.

 

No adults were present at the time the fire was started, although two 15-year-old counselors were in the group of Scouts. In depositions, Scouts said they extinguished the fire with water, urine and dirt and then slept next to the site.

 

A judge ruled, however, that no one conducted a cold-out test, in which someone can safely run a hand through the coals and ashes that ensures a fire is fully extinguished.

 

An order dismissing the case has not been signed by U.S. District Judge Tena Campbell.

 

[GernBlansten]

So the gov wanted 13.5 M to cover costs and the BSA is putting up 6.5 M. That leaves 7 M to be covered by the tax payers.

BSA loses because they are out 6.5 M, the public loses because they are out 7 M.

Seems like a lose/lose situation. But I'm A Half-Glass-Full Kinda Guy.

[evmori]

Or maybe in reality, 6.5 will cover the entire thing! Could be the govt asked for more in case they got less.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten]

Ed,

You're not suggesting that the Federal Govmint would mislead the public would you?

Next thing you're gonna tell me is there really wasn't any WMD!

[SWScouter]

In the article, "A judge ruled, however, that no one conducted a cold-out test, in which someone can safely run a hand through the coals and ashes that ensures a fire is fully extinguished."

 

Any guesses why the scouts didn't perform a "cold-out" test?

 

I imagine that, "Scouts said they extinguished the fire with ... urine" may have something to do with it. Just a thought.

 

SWScouter

[evmori]

The way I look at it, Gern, it's like selling your Buick. You want $5,000 so you ask $10,000 knowing you won't go below $5,000.

 

I can hear the conversation now SWScouter.

 

Scout 1: "Pee on it to put it out!"

Scout 2: "Now we gotta feel it to make sure it's out!"

Scout 1: "I ain't touchin' it! You peed in it! I ain't touchin' pee!"

Scout 3 "Let's get outta here!"

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten]

Ed,

Please tell us you are funning with us.

Do you really believe that the feds would exaggerate the costs with the idea that if it really cost 6M to fight the fire, we should ask for 13.5M? I know that integrity in government was restored in 2000, and I for one won't stand by while you disparage our hard working patriots.

[frank10]

GB,

I wouldn't acuse them of lieing however I wouldn't be suprised if they included fixed cost in the total. Cost that would have been there even if the fire truck had never left the fire house.

[SSScout]

Okay, at 15 dollars a can of popcorn but the chocolate covered corn tin is 23 and the lite is...divided into.... oooo my head hurts.

 

I still have to wonder what those boys must be going thru, and their parents. God and therapy help them.

 

My son broke something, he worked to pay for it. When the neighbors kid and my son were rough housing and my sons arm got broken(!), insurance paid for the care but the neighbors boy was made to realize (by his father) that even tho "accidents do happen", he had some responsibility for what happened (along with my son, together).

 

Whole lotta popcorn and some new Council fire prevention (Fireman's Chit?) classes?

 

 

YiS

[evmori]

Excellent point wingnut!

 

I'm not funnin' Gern. No one was fibbin'! Just playing the game.

 

Integrity restored to government? And we are paying $3.00/gallon of gas why? Isn't W a big oil guy?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

To help fuel the black helicopters, which while we read this forum, are already massing at the Colorado/Montana border intent on dividing the country into 4 regions, the Northeast, South, Central and West with Ted Kennedy as the Grand Pooh-Ba of the Northeast and Jane Fonda in the West. The other positions are open, call 555 555 5555 and ask for Julius (immediate bonus points are given if you converse in Esperanto)

[FScouter]

"Cost that would have been there even if the fire truck had never left the fire house."

Yeah, that old arguement sounds reasonable at first. Everybody wants to pay marginal costs. But who's gonna pay for the fire truck?

[ASM915]

Beavah,

I think the thread you were looking for is under the Politics Thread, fourth entry.

[Beavah]

Yah, thanks ASM915! And thanks to OGE for bumpin' that old thread back up.

 

Re-readin' it, this case does show that yes, organizations are responsible for the negligent acts of their volunteers/employees (so be nice to your CO's and your councils), and yes, the BSA liability insurance does cover us even when we're stupid and don't follow the rules.

 

The big thing in that old thread that I think is most important is "What happens to these kids?". Bein' responsible for somethin' bad happening, whether you're a kid or an adult scouter, is a pretty traumatic experience. It wouldn't have been hard for a firefighter to have been badly hurt or killed in this blaze, but even without that, this is rough.

 

It's good to call your SE right away, because the council can bring resources to help with that stuff. But it's also good to have "emergency" policies in place with your CO and unit. None of us ever wants to be in a bad situation, but when we are, it's nice to have some things in place that we can just turn to when we're reelin'.

 

Beavah

 

[Hunt]

Cases are settled when each side believes there is a risk they will not achieve total victory. In this case, it could be that the government felt that they would not be able to support the total damage claim, or that they were concerned that a trial might not find the BSA liable. While there was no cold-out test, the fire was extinguished in the evening, and the scouts slept beside it all night. Even though there was a fire ban, it's hard to predict for sure whether a jury would have found negligence in this case. Also, settling a case cuts off further expenditures on litigation for both sides.