Fathering a child

[kb6jra]

Wow, lot's of ideas and opinions...in fact too many to wade through in a single morning. Good question by the way, so many responses...

 

My opinion. We as adult leaders are chared with giving our youth a solid foundation with which to make ethical and moral choices, based on the values that are espoused by the Scout Oath and Law, Motto, Slogan, Outdoor Code...

 

When a scout deviates from these values, and I'd venture to say that 100% of scouts deviate from these values at some point in their lives, it's our "job" to help them see the errors of their ways and make amends...do the right thing.

 

I don't think this changes when we're talking about hiding a bad report card from parents, telling a lie, fighting, swearing, etc. We're talking about human behavior and making mistakes. All human's make mistakes, it's a fact of life. "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone...". Good words to live by, eh?

 

Some of the character traits we need to instill in our youth, right next to responsible parenting, abstenance, and the like, are forgiveness and understanding.

 

I would not be in favor of the BSA making a policy with regards to fathering a child as a scout. I think they/we need to stand on the foundation we've laid over the last 100 years, the Scout Oath and Law. IMO the CO who "owns" the unit should make such restrictions. This is a good practice and makes sense.

 

If a boy makes a mistake, fathering a child or whatever, that shouldn't preclude him from ever advancing in the future. Again, my opinion.

[BrentAllen]

Wow - hard to believe this is a bunch of Scout Leaders responding to this thread. Teaching the boys to make ethical and moral decisions. I guess I missed the part where it said "except about sexual issues."

 

Here is a situation for the "keep your nose out of his bedroom" crowd. Scout Johnny gets one of the high school cheerleaders pregnant. The whole school is talking about it. All the boys in the Troop are talking about it. Johnny is a Life Scout, working toward Eagle. The Troop is chartered by a 1. Methodist Church 2. Baptist Church 3. Catholic Church. Take your pick.

 

What would all you "keep your nose out of it" Scouters do? Again, the entire school knows about it, all the boys in the troop know about it. For this situation, assume it is a fact that Johnny is the one who performed the act. How would you handle the situation?

 

It would appear to me that for some, Scouting is just something you do one night a week. I guess I'm lucky I grew up a troop that was more than that.

[kb6jra]

No offense intended, but what was asked for here was opinion. If an opinion is asked for with regards to the original topic, and an opinion is given, then there is no reason to point fingers, pin labels, tout that "my opinion is better than your opinion..."

 

One thing we do definately teach the boys in Scouting is that every one is entitled to their opinion, and courtesy, friendliness, helpfulness, kindness, and cheerfulness all apply in allowing those opinions to be expressed openly and honestly.

 

 

 

 

[evmori]

What would all you "keep your nose out of his bedroom" Scouters do? Again, the entire school knows about it, all the boys in the troop know about it.

 

I'm not a "keep your nose out of his bedroom" Scouter. And maybe if someone had "kept their (parent) nose in his bedroom" this wouldn't have happened.

 

You can't ignore it. It must be addressed. Sweeping it under the rug condones the behavior.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten]

Brent,

I don't think I would shy away from the topic in the BOR, but I don't think it is our responsibility nor business to investigate the validity of the allegations outside the BOR.

If faced with the situation, I would ask the accused scout about it in the BOR and probe his side of the story. That might lead to questions of morality, responsibility and maturity. His answers and his answers alone would effect my decision, not my own independent investigation or the allegations laid upon the scout. I think some of you might be surprised at how scoutlike he might respond.

[Hunt]

He might say, "It's a lie." What will you do then?

 

It seems to me that you have to base a BOR decision on information that is properly before the Board. That's what you've observed (if it's a unit-based BOR) and what you've been told by other people in the unit. If you start going by hearsay from outside the unit, you really have to rely on what the boy says about it. I suppose for an Eagle BOR, you can also go by what's in the recommendations--but again, it's hard to do more than ask the boy about it and go by what he says.

[Eamonn]

"Scout Johnny gets one of the high school cheerleaders pregnant. The whole school is talking about it. All the boys in the Troop are talking about it. Johnny is a Life Scout, working toward Eagle. The Troop is chartered by a 1. Methodist Church 2. Baptist Church 3. Catholic Church. Take your pick.

What would all you "keep your nose out of it" Scouters do? Again, the entire school knows about it, all the boys in the troop know about it. For this situation, assume it is a fact that Johnny is the one who performed the act. How would you handle the situation?"

 

There isn't a Cookie Cutter answer to this.

How does Johnny feel about this?

How does he act?

What is he going to do about it?

What will be be allowed to do?

Is the girl going to keep the baby?

Clearly Johnny has not done a very good job as far as being:

Trustworthy

Obedient

Loyal

Some might say that he hasn't been:

Helpful

Courteous

Or Kind.

I can't help wondering if he would have been any less of these things if the girl hadn't become pregnant? If maybe the girl was using some form of birth control?

We don't know how long or how often they had been having sex? Was this the first and only time?

As a adult leader in our organization there are some things I expect the Scouts we serve to take from home. As the Scouts get older they assume more and more responsibility. I'm not going to check if the Sea Scouts have brushed their teeth. I might know some of the Scouts belong to a certain religion and I do go out of my way to ensure that we as a Ship give them the opportunity to attend the church service of their faith, but there is no way I'm going to frog march them to the service.

I have discussed sex and sexual responsibility with my son. We as Roman Catholics believe that most forms of birth control are not in keeping with the teachings of the church.

I have friends who are also fathers of teenage boys who have told their son's that what ever happens they need to "Wrap that rascal"!

This very well might prevent girls from becoming pregnant, but in my view does little to teach responsibility

Teenage youth are well known for rebelling against the traditional values that we spend a lot of time passing on. They do want to experiment and try new things. Sadly many of the things they want to try are not good and do cause harm.

We can help them find new things to do which are good and while there might be some element of risk, for the most part don't cause harm.

Johnny could very well be going through a lot of emotional turmoil. I would hope that he knows that what he has done is not a good thing.

Still I care about him, I don't want him to do anything even more stupid.

I took the same oath that he did, I owe him my loyalty, I want to be kind, I want to live up to the Scout Law.

Sure he has messed up, sure I'm disappointed in what he has done, but what happened isn't all there is to tell about Johnny, he is a lot more than the Lad who got the young Lady pregnant.

Depending on what happens next? Life might change a lot for him. He might very well see his hopes and dreams slip away.

He does have to take responsibility for what he has done.

But just like any Scout who doesn't live up to the Oath and Law we need to help him see where he went wrong and then start a new.

Eamonn.

 

 

[scoutldr]

So, do we owe the same allegiance to the scout who declares himself gay or atheist? Or do we just summarily revoke his membership?

 

That's where I have the problem. Inconsistent messages.

[Eamonn]

"So, do we owe the same allegiance to the scout who declares himself gay or atheist? Or do we just summarily revoke his membership?"

 

As a Leader of a youth organization I'm happy to go along with the idea that our youth members are the asexual beings.

Being as they are asexual they really can't be avowed homosexuals.

Many young people do go through a time when they question the beliefs that they have been raised with. Many young Catholics I talk with have lots of doubts, some become cafeteria Catholics, taking the bits they can understand and like while leaving the bis they don't on the shelve.

When a Scout comes to me telling me that he thinks he is an atheist, I try and get him or her to take a look at other religions.

We have one Lad in the Ship who very nearly quit Scouting.

He had been on staff at a JLTC where the person in charge had said that in order to be a Scout you needed to be a Christian. This led up to a heated discussion where the Lad said that he didn't believe in God.

When I asked him to join the Ship he said he couldn't because he didn't believe in God.

We talked for a while and it came that he didn't believe in church or organized religion.

He did believe in some kind of "Higher Power"

He is now looking at other religions.

I noticed on one long drive he was reading about Wiggins.

I think keeping duty to God in the oath is a good thing.

I'm sure that there are some youths that really are atheists. I would hope that we the adults do try and give them every opportunity to look at other religions and beliefs and try to work with them.

I don't think you can become an atheist over night, our role is to be there for the Scout and sadly if he or she does decide that they can no longer take the Scout Oath, they do need to quit.

I'm happy to leave that decision to the Scout.

Eamonn.

 

 

[kb6jra]

"...our role is to be there for the Scout and sadly if he or she does decide that they can no longer take the Scout Oath, they do need to quit.

I'm happy to leave that decision to the Scout."

 

Thank you Eamonn, this articulates what I was attempting to espouse earlier. Kinda boils it down for me. I work to instill a sense of ethics and a means to support and teach our scouts to become citizens of good character. By definition I cannot always be successful, sometimes I have to only a percentage of success. By stating that, it doesn't mean I have to like it that way, but I shouldn't consider what I do a failure either.

[Rikki12]

 

According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her. The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, No man, lord. Jesus then said, Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.

 

It absolutely amazes me that an organization that purports to guide and mentor the boys of the U.S. of America will throw a boy onto the garbage heap of humanity for making a mistake. The professionals that run this organization crow long and loud of all the wonderful things they do, when in reality it is the NON-PAID VOLUNTEERS that are responsible for the positive aspects of the BSA. The PAID BSA falsifies enrollment records, pay themselves outrageous salaries, use troop money to buy themselves expensive vehicles and then have the audacity to tell a boy he is not worthy and revoke his membership.

 

Jesus did not hang with the holier-than-thou hypocrites who condemned all of those around them. He searched for those that were not perfect and held out his hand in love. He helped them find a new direction for their lives.

 

The PAID BSAs CANNOT demand a religious affiliation for all participants and then turn around and act like a vigilante (judge, jury, and executioner). The PAID BSA failed the boy who made a mistake, but instead of reaching out a helping hand, they are going to bury their failure under the garbage dump.

 

Either the PAID BSAs are a contigent of perfect human beings that have NEVER, EVER made a mistake, or they are hypocrites that break the very first of the 12 points of the Scout Law. THEY ARE NOT TRUSTWORTY.

 

So volunteers, are you going to sit on your hands and allow the PAID BSAs to continue stealing from your sons as they sit on their high thrones of judgement, or are you going to take your troops back and return to the Boy Scouts that Baden Powell foresaw? (Baden Powell even believed that NO ONE should be paid for their association with the Boy Scouts.)

[Trevorum]

Rikki,

BSA does NOT "demand a religious affiliation of all participants." You have been misinformed. Many Scouts and Scouters are not affiliated with any religion, but seek spirituality on their own path.

 

 

[Rikki12]

Trevorum,

 

I have not been misinformed. You have to believe in some type of God (which I do), be willing to admit it at a BOR, and if you happen to be of a religion the local council member does not agree with, the scout can be hurt by admitting to it. If that is not a religious affiliation, than nothing is.

 

DO MY DUTY TO GOD AND MY COUNTRY...

 

speaks for itself.

[Rikki12]

But you miss the point, Trevorum. Do you turn your back on a boy that has made a mistake or do you reach out a helping hand and be a real mentor and guide? Do you follow the positive aspects that Jesus taught and many other religions encourage, or do you have the path of the Pharisees and stone the boy?

 

Actions speak louder than words. The PAID BSAs can say they guide and mentor, but their actions prove those words are lies.

[Trevorum]

Rikki

(by the way, welcome to the forums!) I don't know what beef you have with professional Scouters. Perhaps you can tell us your story and give us some perspective on your experience. It's hard to respond to a contextlesss rant.

 

Regarding your statement on religion: "BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion" (BSA policy statement, 6/2000) 'Nuff said.