Scouting aims to connect with Muslims

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I'd like to know if any of the advocates of keeping Muslims out or restricting the rights of Muslims because of the 9/11 attack, are consistent and advocate similar restrictions on people who resemble those behind the previous "worst terrorist attack" (prior to Sept. 11, 2001)? And if not, why not?

[TheScout]

No. Why? Because white Christians make up the vast majority of our population. The percentage that wants to committ such attacks from that group is much lower, especially considering the longer time they have been here. They have also made up the great majority of American political, military, and social leaders over the past two centuries and are responsible for most of our scientific research and industrial progress. I would say overall the benefits white Americans have brought to this country FAR outstripe the damage done by Mr. McVeigh and Mr. Niccols.

 

Also remember Merlyn, I have never advocated restricting the rights of Muslim citizens. They have the same rights as all other Americans. It is only foreign ones who should not enjoy free access to our country.

[Kudu]

Trevorum writes:

 

"Kudu, I've tried to make this point before, but you have not responded. Maybe you never saw the post."

 

I did not respond because it sounds like the kind of weasel-logic to which those who promote religious tolerance must resort in order to justify their signing of the Declaration of Religious Principle :-)

 

The DRP is what the DRP does: it is designed to use "God" against other people.

 

It is the opposite of the Golden Rule, the idea (common to most religions) that you should treat other people the way that you yourself would want to be treated. The proof of this is that (for the purpose of this thread) no Scouter who rails against Muslims would sign the DRP if the Muslim majority merely switched the Christian word for "God" with the Muslim word for "God" even though (as you say) it is the same god.

 

"Anyway, the word "God" is not a name. It is a title."

 

Oh, really? And exactly where did He write that down? :-/

 

"True, some monotheists do not see a difference, but "God" (capitalized) is equivalent to "King", or even "President". Those titles refer to an office, which can be held by various persons."

 

An honest atheist like Merlyn_LeRoy can probably sort through this theology stuff better than me.

 

But just off the top of my head, if "God" was an office rather than a name, then:

 

1) We would say THE God in the same way as we say THE King or THE President. For instance the Scout Promise would read "Duty to the God and the King," or "Duty to my god and my country."

 

2) Every Christian would know the name of the god who currently occupies the office of God, just as they know that George W. Bush currently occupies the office of President.

 

3) If "God" was not a name then there would be no special orthodox spelling for it. For instance "G_d," just as Yahweh is spelled "Yhwh" (no vowels).

 

At any rate when they become the majority in the BSA, conservative Muslims can just as easily claim that "Allah" is a title and not a name when they force everyone to sign the DRP and acknowledge a "Duty to Allah" as a condition to participate in the American religious monopoly brand of Scouting.

 

The question I can't wait to see answered is, will Muslims use the DRP to target Christian six-year-olds who want to join Tigers in the same way that Christians now target six-year-old Unitarians like Mark Welsh?

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Trevorum]

Kudu- OK, so you disagree. I don't buy your points #2 or #3, but #1 is interesting. I think a comparable useage may be "Lord" which takes an article and is clearly a title. But what then is "Jehovah", a surname? And your thought experiment about an Islamic majority in the US leads me to wonder if Arabic has other words for "supreme deity" and also whether Allah has other names, as does Jehovah. I'll have to investigate that.

[TheScout]

An Islamic traditon holds that there are 99 names for God, each invoking a characteristic that He has.

[Kudu]

Trevorum writes:

 

"I don't buy your points #2 or #3, but #1 is interesting."

 

Really? I thought #3 was the most obvious, but #2 is my favorite :-)

 

Kudu

 

[Gonzo1]

Perhaps other names for God can interchanged:

 

Don't be afraid, I'm coming with the blanket or

Fear not, the Comforter cometh

 

Merlyn,

I acknowledge that I may not have been completely correct, sorry.

Gonzo

[SSScout]

As a nascent UC, I have been given the assignment of assisting a struggling Cub Pack sponsored by.... an Islamic Community Association.

 

The COR has spoken with me several times, plans are afoot. He is very sure that the basic tenets of Scouting are in no way in conflict with the values of Islam or the Quran. His wife is a Girl Scout leader. We are working toward training all the adult leaders, getting the Cubs involved in CSDC, and other extra-Pack activities. I am learning as much about the cultural differences as he is about the Scouting possibilities. Yes, the Program has to be 'adapted' in certain ways. More on those things later.

 

Can you say "Diversity Ticket"?

 

 

[ASM915]

FINALLY SOMEONE WAS FIGURED OUT WHAT THIS THREAD WAS SUPPOSE TO BE ABOUT.

 

THANK YOU SSScouter.

How about we restart this thread and discuss what the original subject was suppose to be about ,unless I misunderstood fgoodwins true intent.

 

Everyone else who really want to talk about the downfalls of our politcal parties, the Monroe Doctrine, who is killing or wants to kill who, take it to a new thread and argue there.

 

By the way, no I'm not a conspiracy nut, left wing bleeding heart liberal, right wing extremist, etc. Unfortunately some people can't see their way thru sarcastic satirical posts that are trying to so how ridiculous some of us get with hijacking threads.

 

An man did they hijack your thread big time, fgoodwin. Please keep up the informative posts.

[Gonzo1]

Shazzamm Merlyn!

 

If we aren't safer afterall.

 

Ft Dix attack was thwarted and now this bulletin from the Associated Press:

 

4 Charged in JFK Airport Terror Plot

Saturday, June 2, 2007 4:44 PM EDT

The Associated Press

By ADAM GOLDMAN

 

 

Follow this link:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TERRORISM_PLOT?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

Sleep tight Merlyn while the feds and the military keep clowns like you safe.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Gonzo1 writes:

Shazzamm Merlyn!

 

If we aren't safer afterall.

 

Terrorist attacks tripled from 2004 to 2005, and from 2005 to 2006 they increased another 30%. I wouldn't call that "safer." There've been a lot of planned terrorist attacks that have been stopped in time; that doesn't mean terrorist attacks have decreased overall.

[TheScout]

I don't recall any successful attacks on America or American interests since September 11, 2001.

[Gonzo1]

I know, it must be the attack that blew up the Sears Tower, or was that the Empire State Building, The Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty? Oh, I know WE HAVEN'T BEEN ATTACKED AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

I see both of you have already forgotten what I mentioned earlier in this same thread, where I pointed out that the anthrax attacks were after 9/11.

[hot_foot_eagle]

I'm curious SSScouter, is the Pack struggling because it appears to be exclusively for members of the Islamic Community Association?

 

I have a very similar situation with the "other" Pack in my town that is sponsored by the Boys & Girls Club. I'm sure the diversity numbers look good at the council office, but the fact of the matter is that it's paper only, and the boys really aren't being served.

 

I think there's a real danger of reinforcing traditional divisions in the community with these separate-but-equal units. Real diversity only comes when we live, work, and play together.