Gotta love him!

[BadenP]

Brent and Gonzo, tell me is there something in the Georgian water that makes you both so bigotted and closed minded??? You both defend this atrocity being committed in violation of our countrys laws, it is not our country that is evil, the evil is with certain high ranking officials who think they are above the law. Our country is and always will be the best in the world, thank God that these certain high ranking officials reign will soon be at an end. AMEN!!

[Gonzo1]

BadenP

 

Bigotted and close minded? I'm sorry, I don't like terrorists.

 

Gern,

Its not against the law for our 'detainees' to tell about their experiences. You're confusing two kinds of groups. The prisoners at Guantanamo and other places are free to talk, they have been telling the Red Cross how fat they are getting. How the food is and how they get to sleep in a bed instead of a hole in the ground. The ones that the Bush administration you like to silence legally is because of the intelligence sources and methods involved. Would you prefer that the terrorist get released into the desert and then they can tell their buddies what happened to them? Then next time, they can beat us at our game, would you like that?

 

This other group of prisoner in 'secret' CIA prisons frankly deserves what they get. They could talk, but they choose not to. That may sound cold to many of you, but while you rest your pretty little head down tonight, I hope that you'll thank God that there are people who do what they do. Their job is dark, thankless and 'dirty'. You know, sometimes it has to be that way in order to keep you safe.

 

Maybe we should hold hands with them, try to understand them, find out why they don't like us. Maybe we could sing Kum Ba Ya. When you understand and come to terms with the fact that they want to kill YOU, maybe you won't like them either. They attacked us!!! Do you remember September 11? You can't treat this as a criminal act and send them to jail.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Gonzo, don't waste your time with BadenP. He has nothing in common with the Username he has chosen. As they say in Texas: big hat, no cattle - no-watta-mean?

 

 

 

[Gonzo1]

I know what you mean, thanks,

G

[BadenP]

Yep it must be the water, Brent you continue prove my point time and time again, and Gonzo I don't like terrorists either. Brent it must be hard for you thinking you are always right even when you are so wrong.

[packsaddle]

OK, to try to get this thread back on track, I noticed that the page for the original link evidently doesn't work anymore so here is another that sort of, but not quite, tells the same story:

[Hunt]

"One way we get beat this "torture" thing is to kill them all on the battlefield, you know, take no prisoners."

 

I'm still confused--which approach are you saying is more in tune with Christian values?

[SSScout]

Thank you Hunt and Pack. Thee speaks my mind.

 

I remember an old Arab (!) proverb that starts out with a camel who convinces his master that his nose is cold, so the master allows tha camel to put his nose inside the masters tent....

Soon the master is outside the tent and the camel is totally inside.

Some of our wise leaders are trying us... what is allowed, what is not. What are their boundaries, the ones that we, the electorate, set. What will we allow?. What will our Constitution allow, not just for a "citizen" but for a "guest", whether willing or unwilling. How we treat a fellow human being shows to the world where our moral compass points. We already went thru alot of this back in 1865. It was agreed (against many peoples opinion) that the color of a man's skin does not presuppose him to be less of a man than someone else. That darker hued man is not TORTURED or executed due to his skin tone, but thru a public trial and due to publicly shown evidence of his guilt of a crime. (see Saddam Husseins trial).

Here is where Habeas Corpus comes in. How many Dictators have "dissappeared" people that were ... inconvenient for them?

 

Find the terrorists... prove their guilt or complicity... allow them a defence... then remove them from society to the degree called for.

 

If our society and economic system is so distasteful to some in the world (and some of it is distasteful even by our standards. Another thread...uh ho) then find out how we can make it better. By some standards, the World Bank has done more harm than good. The railroad magnates of the 19th century were ugly greedy folks. Unions made them behave better. But many folks suffered thru that struggle. Is that simplistic? Is it true?

 

Our world is a better place due to the struggles that our predecessors fought, the inventions they created, the ideas they argued, the 'truth they spoke to power' .

 

Then how can Scouting, one boy at a time, make the world better?? Not just here in the US, but in Dafur? In Iraq? In China? In Haiti? (phew, too much to say, not enough fingers to type)

 

"You have not convinced a man if you kill him"

 

[GernBlansten]

BadenP,

Its not the water, its the koolaid.

[kraut-60]

My,my..is this ever an interesting and heated thread. I wont delve into the my politics are better than your politics part as I tend to believe that trying to convince another person of the merits of one views and political preferences is quite like trying to talk a Chevy fan into buying a Ford...its like trying to teach a pig to sing...wastes your time and pisses off the pig.

 

I believe that we the citizens of this fine nation, are in a war just as deadly and with as much to win, or lose as all other wars we have fought. I feel we should do WHATEVER is required to win....the alternative IS NOT an option.

 

I served 20 years in our countrys Navy and fought against Iranian forces in the Persian Gulf in April 1988. I have been shot at and missed by those then our enemy, I thank God our aim and equipment was FAR better than theirs.

 

In time of war, no quarter should be offered,expected or given to those who would bring death to ANY US citizen, whether here at home or abroad, whether civilian or service member.

 

I do not feel any sympathy for those we have captured bearing arms against us, and I cannot see extending the courtesy of what an enemy POW would get as these detainees were taken as irregular forces..IE; non-combatants found under arms. These people are not uniformed members of a standing armed force of a nation we are in conflict with, and therefore without rights of any kind.

 

I personally believe we should not have brought these detainees to Guantanomo. They should have been executed where they were captured as civilians found under arms which I believe is allowed under the Geneva conventions rulings on conducting a war. This precedent exists as the US Army so dealt with German citizens found under arms both during the closing days of WW2 and the active occupation of the late 1940's.