Feud deepens between RP Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts

[fgoodwin]

Feud deepens between RP Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts

 

http://globalnation.inq7.net/news/breakingnews/view_article.php?article_id=29789

http://tinyurl.com/ygjfq3

 

By Jhunnex Napallacan

Inquirer

Last updated 05:47pm (Mla time) 10/31/2006

 

CEBU CITY -- The Girl Scouts of the Philippines (GSP) maintained its opposition to a move by the Boy Scouts of the Philippines (BSP) to accept girls on its roster, saying the move necessitates changes in the charters of the two organizations, an official of the GSP has said.

 

Dr. Cristina Yuson, the national treasurer of the GSP and the Asia Pacific regional chairperson of the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, said even if the BSP changed its charter to allow girls in, the GSP would continue to oppose the plan.

 

While there is a pending bill aimed at changing the BSP's charter, there is also another bill that opposes it, Yuson pointed out.

 

Makati Mayor Jejomar Binay, the national president of BSP, said the BSP planned to meet with GSP officials to arrive at an acceptable solution to the problem.

 

Binay said the gender issue should not become a hindrance to an integrated scouting movement, which has been adopted in international jamborees.

 

But Yuson pointed out that there were members of the BSP, among them sons of congressmen, who were resisting the idea of accepting girls into the BSP and changing the BSPs name to Scout Philippines.

 

Yuson also urged the BSP to refrain from using the GSP as a prerequisite to joining the BSP, which she said was contained in the implementing guidelines of national memorandum number 47.

 

The BSP in its resolution last August 26 decided to accept girls aged 13 to 17. Last September 7, the BSP released its national memorandum number 47 detailing the implementing guidelines on how to accept girls into their senior scout section of the BSP.

 

The GSP said this would confuse the local BSP and GSP councils. Yuson said that the GSP would not compromise on its opposition to memorandum no. 47.

 

Yuson said besides the GSP had Muslim members who were not allowed to be with boys and that there were parents who wanted their 13 to 17-year-old daughters to be in the girl's group.

 

"Equal opportunities means to say you are more empowered; you are educated and we feel that the girls scout movement is still vibrant and strong to be able to do that," she said. Yuson also disagreed with the allegations that the GSP program was "too girly."

 

Aside from having the basic activities, Yuson said the GSP also had other activities such as rappelling.

 

"We do as many challenges now as the boy scouts and we are part of an international organization, which is the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts. We have relevant programs like in Africa about HIV-AIDS, and here in the country, we are also doing programs even in reproductive health, awareness of what a girl is. A girl is different from a boy in the first place, why are they saying too girly?" she said.

 

[John-in-KC]

Here in the US, there appear to be substantial differences between the BSA program and the GSUSA program.

 

I just read the Girl Scout oath and Law as presented at wikipedia. Words matter, and there is substantial difference between what young men declare and what young women declare. To me, the Girl Scout declarations are inside "shades of gray." Boy Scoutings declarations, particularly the Scout law, are black and white!

 

Is that true in other countries?

 

 

[Beavah]

Most other countries (including almost all western and democratic nations) offer coed scouting through the country's WOSM members. It might be that the small WAGGS groups in some countries have less "black and white" oaths, but I really couldn't say.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

Ain't wikipedia cool?

 

Here are lists of the oath and law from other nations.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Law

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Promise

[fgoodwin]

I thought it was interesting that this article points out that GSP opposes the introduction of girls into BSP. I suspect that GSUSA also opposes girls in BSA.

 

Yet when people bash BSA for holding that view, they never mention that GSUSA also opposes the introduction of girls into BSA.

[Trevorum]

Beav, yep!

 

This one's interesting, under history of the Scout Law, [cheerful] Baden Powell is quoted: "The punishment for swearing or bad language is for each offence a mug of cold water to be poured down the offender's sleeve by the other scouts"

 

[emb021]

Interesting. In many countries, the Boy Scout Association has gone co-ed. In several others, the Boy Scout & Girl Scout Associations merged. there are still many Girl Guide/Girl Scout associations in countries in which their Boy Scout Associations have gone co-ed.

 

"I thought it was interesting that this article points out that GSP opposes the introduction of girls into BSP. I suspect that GSUSA also opposes girls in BSA."

 

"Yet when people bash BSA for holding that view, they never mention that GSUSA also opposes the introduction of girls into BSA. "

 

My understanding of the situation, based in part on things I have been told by people who appear to be in the know.

 

Around 1969 or so, the BSA made overtures to both Girl Scouts and Camp Fire Girls to merge with them. As part of this, they apparently tried out co-ed units, and this was the period in which Explorer Posts were allowed to have Girl Scouts & C F Girls as 'participants'. Things didn't work out, and the BSA took Exploring co-ed in 1971. Apparently, the GSUSA wasn't too happy, as most of their older girls went over to Exploring (which continues today with many going to Venturing). The GSUSA were able to get an 'agreement' with the BSA to NOT take their Boy Scout or Cub Scout programs co-ed. And this is apparently one of the reasons they haven't, despite presure to do so.

 

Interesting, around 1975 Camp Fire went co-ed. But as this program is much smaller then either Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, I guess that didn't matter.

 

[SR540Beaver]

I am totally "making this up" as I go, so my opinion and 10 cents (well, $3.50 if you go to Starbucks) will get you a cup of coffee. While it appears that Boy and Girl Scouting started from the same background and ideals, they have gone their separate paths here in the US. I say this as a total outsider to GS'ing. While they may strive for many of the same goals, GS depends far, far less on doing it without the emphasis on the "outing" in Scouting. Honestly, how often do you come across a GS troop camping?

 

People argue from time to time wanting Boy Scouts to change and be more "relevant" to the times. I believe that is what GS has tried to do and depending on which side of the fence you are stnding on, they have either failed or are very successful.

 

For those who don't want to do spa days, they move to venturing and sail or rock climb.

[ScoutNut]

"I thought it was interesting that this article points out that GSP opposes the introduction of girls into BSP. I suspect that GSUSA also opposes girls in BSA."

 

 

From reading the article in the original post, it appears that BSP & GSP are tied together in some way. The article stated that in order for BSP to become co-ed the charters of BOTH BSP & GSP would have to be changed. It goes on to state that the BSP would be making it a prerequisite for girls 13 to 17 years old who want to become members of BSP to be current members of GSP. So, in essence, the BSP would be siphoning off all of GSP's older girls.

 

The BSA & the GSUSA do not have that kind of inter-dependent relationship. While GSUSA might feel their membership would suffer if BSA went completely co-ed, there is not ANYTHING that GSUSA can do to stop them.

 

 

[fgoodwin]

SN writes:While GSUSA might feel their membership would suffer if BSA went completely co-ed, there is not ANYTHING that GSUSA can do to stop them.Understood -- but that wasn't my point.

 

BSA has been publicly criticized for its position of not admitting younger girls -- but those same critics don't say anything about GSUSA's opposition to BSA admitting younger girls.

 

I just wonder why GSUSA is let off the hook by those who complain about BSA?

[emb021]

"BSA has been publicly criticized for its position of not admitting younger girls -- but those same critics don't say anything about GSUSA's opposition to BSA admitting younger girls. "

 

"I just wonder why GSUSA is let off the hook by those who complain about BSA? "

 

Gee. Its very simple. (I asked this question on a prior version of this sort of forum).

 

You see, girls are a 'protected class'. Boys aren't.

 

So its NOT ok to discriminate against girls for being girls (ie, by not letting them join the Boy Scouts, or having schools/programs they can't attend/join/etc); but its IS ok to discriminate against boys for being boys (ie, by not allowing them to join Girl Scouts, or having school/programs they can't attend/join/etc).

 

This is why boys-only schools are EVIL, whereas girls-only school are GOOD. Boy can't be allowed to have boys-only programs, they MUST be in co-ed programs; however, girls should be allowed girls-only programs because there they can excel WITHOUT boys.

 

See, its all perfectly logical and fair. Why can't you understand that?

 

 

[ScoutNut]

"BSA has been publicly criticized for its position of not admitting younger girls -- but those same critics don't say anything about GSUSA's opposition to BSA admitting younger girls.

 

I just wonder why GSUSA is let off the hook by those who complain about BSA?"

 

 

Not confusing at all. It makes perfect sense.

 

If GSUSA is against BSA admitting younger girls it is because they feel that it would have an impact on the GSUSA membership numbers. This would be the same way BSA would feel if GSUSA decided to admit boys into it's program.

 

Personally I do not feel that Venturing is having a significant impact on the GSUSA older girl numbers. Venturing is still pretty small in terms of numbers. Most of the girls I know who are members of a Ship or Crew are either still members of GSUSA (dual registered in both scouting programs) or have aged out of GSUSA's youth program.

 

However, if either GSUSA or BSA went co-ed at the youngest levels it would have a very significant impact on the membership levels of the other program. The young kids would not be likely to dual register in both programs so the non-co-ed program would take a membership hit.

 

It's all about the bottom line.

[Gonzo1]

emb021,

I agree! Besides, who can forget that some over achieving mom is going to have the claim of having the 'first female Eagle Scout', the first female to earn ____ merit badge or XX number of merit badges.

 

Rather than admitting girls to Boy Scouts, perhaps GSUSA could have an outdoor program similar to Boy Scouts.

[Eagledad]

>>"I just wonder why GSUSA is let off the hook by those who complain about BSA? "

 

Gee. Its very simple. (I asked this question on a prior version of this sort of forum).

 

You see, girls are a 'protected class'. Boys aren't.

[fgoodwin]

SN, we're talking past each other, which, given the limitations of the written word, is easy to do.

 

I'm not arguing for or against the policy of either BSA or GSUSA.

 

My focus is on the critics of BSA. They criticize BSA for its policy of excluding younger girls, but they don't criticize GSUSA, which agrees with BSA's policy.