BSA not subject to Am. with Disabilities Act

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

From the BSA's legal website; no media coverage that I could find yet:

http://www.bsalegal.org/bsa-legal-blawg-200.asp?i=52

...

Boy Scouts of America announced today that a federal judge in Los Angeles has dismissed the lawsuit filed by the parents of an autistic boy who alleged that their sons Boy Scout Troop violated the Americans with Disabilities Act by asking the boys father to attend summer camp with his son.

...

Last Monday, the court heard the Boy Scouts motion to dismiss the case. Boy Scouts argued that it is a private membership organization and does not fall in the category of place of public accommodation regulated by the Americans with Disabilities Act. The judge agreed with that position and dismissed the case in an order issued on Friday, October 27.

...

[CA_Scouter]

Merlyn,

 

I'm sure that you are addressing this subject purely at the ( for lack of a better word ) 'theoretical' level, just as you address the legal BSA discrimination, but at a practical level, I don't have a problem with this.

 

I am SM of the troop, and am good at my profession ( software development ), but I am not trained in any way shape or form to work with autistic children.

 

Now of course I'm assuming neither are the leaders of the troop in question, so for the parents to expect them to babysit their kid for an entire week is not fair ( and even possibly, not safe for the kid ).

 

Similarily, I have had behavioral problems with one kid in my troop, and I required one of parents to be present at every meeting and every campout for a 90 day period as a condition of participation. The parents recognized that the issue of their son's behavior was theirs to deal with, not mine. They did not sue me.

 

I'm certain that these troop leaders would do as I would... try their very best given the tools they have to work with, do some research etc. But I too would balk at having to be responsible for the kid an entire week, not only for my lack of skills, but also for what it could potentially take away from the rest of the scouts.

 

So I'm curious...

1) what's your beef?

2) would YOU be willing to be responsible for an autistic child for an entire week at summer camp ( any summer camp )?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

You're the one claiming I have a "beef". I've said since the Dale decision that the BSA is a private organization, which is why public schools have no business chartering packs.

[GernBlansten]

The judge was correct, BSA is a private organization and is not bound by ADA.

Doesn't mean that BSA shouldn't provide reasonable accomodations to the disabled though. I think BSA is providing reasonable accomodations in this case.

 

Personal case, my type 1 diabetic son was faced with a 45 minute bus ride home from school (last off the bus). Using analog insulin, the danger zone of his blood sugars was highest during that ride home. We wanted to reduce the time he would be without access to snacks. We asked the bus routing manager to reverse the route so my son would only have a 10 minute ride instead of 45 minutes. They rebuffed our request. We pulled the ADA card and the route was reversed. A reasonable accomodation in our minds. Now some of you anti-ADA types might just say we should drive our son to and from school, don't disrupt the bus routes. I guess we could also just tell wheelchair people to bring portable ramps everywhere they want to go too or get curb climbing chairs.

[evmori]

Even if the BSA was bound by ADA, this case would have been ruled in favor of the unit. Providing reasonable accommodations & babysitting a kid for a week is not what the ADA is about.

 

Gern,

 

I have two deaf kids & have had to pull out the ADA card a couple times in similar situations.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[EagleInKY]

I'm glad this ruling went this way. When I heard about it a while back I was very concerned that some judge would try to legislate from the bench (something they're good at in California).

 

We have a number of special needs kids in our program. We work with the parents for the appropriate level of assistance and involvement required. We've never had a problem with it until last year. We had a family show up to join our pack in which the every member of the family was deaf. They wanted us to provide an interpreter for them at all activities. Someone from the school district told them we had to because of ADA. I confirmed with our Council that we did not. The family ended up dropping out, unfortunately. They're probably very disappointed with scouting. But we simply couldn't afford it. The cost of the interpreter would have shut us down completely.

[Eamonn]

"which is why public schools have no business chartering packs"

To the best of my knowledge there are no Packs chartered by public schools.

A memo was sent out a year or two back from the National Office asking all Councils who had units chartered by public funded organizations to find new CO's.

As I say this is to the best of my knowledge.

Maybe if anyone knows of a Pack that is chartered by a public school they could be so kind as to correct me.

Merlyn do you know of any?

Eamonn.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

There still appear to be a few hundred units still chartered to public schools, fire departments, etc. I'd say roughly 90-95% have been rechartered.

[GernBlansten]

As a libertarian, I am usually offended by anything like the ADA. How dare the government tell me what I need to do with my business to make it "accessible" by the general public. That attitude softened when I had to start pushing my dad around in his wheelchair. Its amazing how many barriers exist and how simple changes make a big difference. But some take it too far like most things and those examples are used to paint the entire program as disfunctional. Much like the BSA.

[CA_Scouter]

Gern... I hope I didn't come across as being anti-ADA... that wasn't my intent... apologies...

 

Merlyn, I'm asking two simple questions.. you deflected on the first one, you didn't address the second one at all.

 

Let me rephrase the first one... what was your point in posting this article? You and we already know the BSA is a private membership organization. This article had nothing to do with public school charters of BSA troops... ( not that I can see! ). There must be some other reason you posted it... can you elaborate please?

 

... and I'm still looking for some sort of comment on question number 2...

 

Be nice to me Merlyn, I'm just politely asking questions and lightly challenging you... :-)

 

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

There was a whole thread about this back when the lawsuit was filed, so I thought people might want to know what happened. As to your second question, my answer is "it depends".(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[scoutldr]

C'mon guys. I read Merlyn's first post as an "FYI" to inform us about an ongoing issue. Not to grind a particular axe or air a beef.

 

I too feel the ruling is proper. As a volunteer to the BSA, I get to decide the limits of my participation...not the parents. That's not to say I'm not sympathetic and very thankful for my own good fortune.

[nldscout]

Merlyn,

I am curious how you are determining there are schhols still chartering units?

 

And why cannot a Fire department charter a unit.

 

You have any examples to share?

[DanKroh]

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that because fire departments are municipal services, they are funded by the town, and are therefore under the same restrictions as public schools. Likewise, police departments or any other municipal department supported by tax dollars could not charter a unit.

 

Interestingly, our troop is chartered the local water and light company, which is not supported by tax dollars, so they are technically separate from the town, even though many people think they are part of the town services.

[Eamonn]

If we can put the lawsuit to one side.

I kinda like the idea that every Lad should have the opportunity to be a Scout.

I do of course see and understand that people like myself don't have the skills and training needed to provide this opportunity.

I'd really like it if Councils could do more in this area. We are trying to reach out to youth who have problems in other areas, with Scoutreach.

As a sad footnote. About five years back we started a pack for special needs Cub Scouts. It was never very big, but the kids had a great time. I spent a very enjoyable afternoon with them and a Pack which was not far from them as they held their Pine Wood Derby. Both Packs had a wonderful time. The sad part? The Special needs Pack was in a Public School and met after school in the school building.

After the memo went out we had no choice but to try and find other packs for these Cub Scouts. It didn't work out very well.

Some will say that the school and the school district had no business allowing a Pack to start up and meet in the school.

I just think it's a shame.

I just looked over the list of organizations who charter units. The list is put out by the Relationship Division of the BSA, I don't see any public schools listed as CO.

I'm not going to say that there maybe isn't the odd unit chartered by a public funded organizations. The 2005 report shows that there is 122,582 units. I feel certain that there isn't 6,000 or 12,000 that are chartered by public funded organizations.

The list of organizations that supports the program of the Boy Scouts of America is a long list at times it is hard to know who the CO is or might be. While publicly funded fire departments might seem to be the CO. In many cases it is Fire Chiefs, International Association of (I.A.F.C.) or an auxiliary that is in fact the CO.

Eamonn.