Gay rights vs. religious beliefs

[packsaddle]

Hunt, your logic is impeccable.

Regarding incest, here the Ptolemy Dynasty comes to mind. We like to ascribe its social unacceptability to genetics but I think there is something else to it as well.

Functionally, polygamy is, and always has been, rampant. Keeping lovers, mistresses, and their male counterparts is still common. I wonder why those of us who object to certain social practices seem to be more tolerant when those practices are simply kept out of sight...and only apparent in our minds.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[yellow_hammer]

The word sinister is latin for left - that about sums it up. Throughout history and all over the world left handers were persecuted. It has only been in modern times that left-handedness has become accepted. I'm sure it was a politically motivated decsion. ;-)

 

Interestingly, homosexuals are more likely to be left handed than heterosexuals.

[BrentAllen]

"I wonder why those of us who object to certain social practices seem to be more tolerant when those practices are simply kept out of sight...and only apparent in our minds."

 

Well, maybe because those people aren't demanding to change the definition of marriage. Other than a handful of people in Utah, there really isn't anyone pushing for public approval and acceptance of their behaviour. By nature, most mistresses must be kept secret - most wives wouldn't approve, I don't think.

 

I'm right-handed and left-footed. My wife and son are right-handed, my daughter left.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I had a crazy uncle

that had five

on the side.

When his wife found out

that ended his

many nights about.

If he had married the five

his marriage

may have survived.

But had he thought

for more than a moment

He would have figured out

One is really more than enough.

 

Burma Shave

 

[packsaddle]

Nice one Fuzzy, I wonder how many people actually remember the Burma Shave signs.

The five on the side thing....gives me the willies just pondering it. But to answer Brent, some wives don't object, it takes the pressure off them. Just last night I showed my wife a photo of my new illicit love, the one that I want to run off with next summer...a Honda Gold Wing Aspencade.

Her comment, "Just make sure your dental records are complete."

There is also a lot to be said for solitude.

[Trevorum]

At my distance in time from High School, one remembers little, if anything, of teachers and actual classes. But I still clearly remember Mr. Z, my senior year US Government teacher. Mr. Z challenged us to think about our implicit assumptions concerning the way our society is structured and regulates itself. We debated each other on controversial social issues, often taking the side opposite of our personal beliefs.

 

It was then that I formed my opinion that capital punishment is unconstitutional because it is BOTH cruel (ultimately so) and unusual (even more so today: USA, North Korea and Iran). I also came to the surprising opinion that a government had no business regulating personal lives. Especially, the government should keep it's nose out of consensual sex and had no business telling people who they could or could not marry. This startled me at the time because I had never really thought about it before. A classmate tried to back me into a logical corner with the issue of plural marriage. But what business is it of the government really? And exactly what are the objections to plural marriage? Ive never received satisfactory answers to either question.

 

[yellow_hammer]

Brent,

 

"Well, maybe because those people aren't demanding to change the definition of marriage. Other than a handful of people in Utah, there really isn't anyone pushing for public approval and acceptance of their behaviour."

 

That's it. There is no resistance to people with other abnormal sexual desires such as S&M, spouse swappers, toe-suckers, etc. Largely, people with such proclivities keep their sex lives private and don't organize politically. Other sexual deviants don't have a publicly stated agenda that includes the intent to educate children to accept homosexuality even against the wishes of parents. When people are pushed they tend to push back. Accept that and quit whining about discrimination.

 

BTW, I'm right-handed but left-eyed so I have to shoot left-handed. I've experience the hot brass down my back that lefties complain about. I can only imagine what my drill sgt would have said if I'd complained about it.

[DanKroh]

"There is no resistance to people with other abnormal sexual desires such as S&M, spouse swappers, toe-suckers, etc. Largely, people with such proclivities keep their sex lives private and don't organize politically."

 

I guess you've never heard of the National Coalition for Sexual Freedom, then.

[Hunt]

"Other sexual deviants don't have a publicly stated agenda that includes the intent to educate children to accept homosexuality even against the wishes of parents. When people are pushed they tend to push back. Accept that and quit whining about discrimination."

 

This statement made me wonder about a few things. Do you think that schools should be teaching children that homosexualilty is "abnormal," a form of sexual deviancy, and/or immoral, or do you think the school should be neutral on the subject. If you think the school should be teaching your point of view, I suggest that you shouldn't complain about people pushing back when they are pushed.

And why wouldn't people who are being discriminated against "whine" about discrimination? You may think the discrimination is justified, but there is no question that the laws discriminate against gay couples. You expect them to stop "whining" to spare your feelings? Maybe they're just "pushing back."

 

[yellow_hammer]

Hunt,

 

"Do you think that schools should be teaching children that homosexualilty is "abnormal," a form of sexual deviancy, and/or immoral, or do you think the school should be neutral on the subject."

 

I don't think that they should teach anything about it at all. The subject should not be part of their vocabulary and if a student asks about it they should be advised to ask their parents. That is what I do as a scouter when a boy asks me a question I think I shouldn't advise him about. But many groups, homosexual activists included, view public schools as their best avenue for creating long-term social change. Many parents disagree strongly.

 

"If you think the school should be teaching your point of view, I suggest that you shouldn't complain about people pushing back when they are pushed."

 

I'll teach MY kids what I want them to know about sexual issues. Everyone else should leave them alone.

 

"And why wouldn't people who are being discriminated against "whine" about discrimination? You may think the discrimination is justified, but there is no question that the laws discriminate against gay couples. You expect them to stop "whining" to spare your feelings? Maybe they're just "pushing back.""

 

You are missing my point. If they are being discriminated against it is because they insist on bareing their sex life in public and then insist that the rest of us are bigoted if we don't accept them completely as they are.

 

They should shut up about it, keep their sexual preferences to themselves and get on with life the way the rest of us do. Just because a person has sex with someone and shares a home with them does not mean that the object of desire should be covered under employer insurance and be automatically granted rights to act on one's behalf or get property if one dies. The partner can get their own insurance, be given power of attorney, and be written into a will. I'm sorry if homosexuals are not satisfied with that but don't expect the rest of us to change an institution that has existed for thousands of years to suit a sexual preference.

 

Homosexuals should lobby to get their own accomodations but should not mess with the basic unit of society - the family joined by marriage. They should teach their own children whatever they want but leave mine alone. It's simple - live and let live - just leave me and mine alone.

[DanKroh]

"But many groups, homosexual activists included, view public schools as their best avenue for creating long-term social change."

 

Can you give some examples/instances of how "homosexual activists" are pushing their view in the public schools?

 

[evmori]

Can you give some examples/instances of how "homosexual activists" are pushing their view in the public schools?

 

Check out what's on the California legislature's agenda.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

Do a Google search on NEA gays.

 

Barry

[BrentAllen]

Dan,

Softball questions?

This is in your backyard.

"An ongoing struggle in a Boston suburb over homosexual material in elementary classrooms has culminated in a lawsuit between parents and the school system.

The Parkers were upset over a book sent home with their five-year-old son in January of 2005, Whos in a Family, that presents families with gay or lesbian parents as normal.

Robert Skutch, author of Whos in a Family, says that the whole purpose of the book was to get the subject [of same-sex parent households] out into the minds and the awareness of children before they are old enough to have been convinced that theres another way of looking at life.

 

Ever heard of GLSEN? Among their gaols:

GLSEN calls upon public policy makers to remove any prohibitive laws that forbid or discourage in-school discussions of sexual orientation and gender identity/expression.

 

More Mass. news:

"The Commissioner of Education, David Driscoll, has apologized for the explicit teaching of homosexual sex to teenagers at a conference which was sponsored by a homosexual organization, GLSEN, at Tufts University on March 25.

 

He said, "There is no question that the comments of the Department of Education staff and the other consultant in those workshops go beyond the boundaries of what our staff should have done."

 

 

 

[yellow_hammer]

The Out for Equity and Out4Good programs are taught in Minnesota and teaches children that homosexual behavior is a normal, natural, biological and social occurrence.

Most of the information taught in the programs, according to the associated manuals, was compiled by local and national gay, lesbian, bisexual and/or transgender advocacy organizations.

 

In some Minnesota schools classrooms are marked with pink triangles indicating that students can talk to the teacher in that room about homosexuality. Teachers refer the students to homosexual groups outside the school and parents are never notified.

 

The public school system in Boyd County, Kentucky forced middle and high school students to participate in diversity and tolerance training, telling them homosexuality cannot be changed and warning them not to say otherwise.

 

In Newton, Mass. first-grade teacher David Gaita "came out" to his students and told them he was homosexual and loved men "the way your mom and dad love each other".

 

With a grant from the Vermont Department of Health, Outright Vermont targets middle and high school kids and teaches them that homosexuality is normal. They sponsor parties, dances, and retreats where children are taught how to engage in homosexual sex.

 

In Northboro, Massachusetts, kids were invited by their high school history teacher to try homosexuality. Douglas Matthews an advisor to the schools gay-straight student alliance handed out a questionnaire that asked, If youve never slept with a person of the same sex and enjoyed it, is it possible that all you need is a good gay lover?

 

"In those instances where children do have sex with their homosexual elders, be they teachers or anyone else, I submit that often, very often, the child desires the activity, and perhaps even solicits it." - Larry Kramer, founder of ACT-UP