Street Wrong To Evict Boy Scouts

[evmori]

Schools support all kinds of internal clubs. I would bet some of those clubs don't allow certain people to be members. But the school is still allowed to support them. What's the difference between an internal school club & chartering a BSA unit?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[GernBlansten]

Ed, I think the difference between a club that uses school facilities and a chartered Pack is that the pack is owned by the school and therefore becomes a direct extension to the school and its policies. The club is just that, a self governed/independent group owned by its membership.

[DanKroh]

Ed: "Schools support all kinds of internal clubs. I would bet some of those clubs don't allow certain people to be members. But the school is still allowed to support them. What's the difference between an internal school club & chartering a BSA unit?"

 

Gern, Ed is talking about an internal school club, which IS operated by the school, usually led by a faculty advisor. Different from an organization not affiliated with the school who might happen to meet on their grounds.

 

However, Ed, those clubs are NOT allowed to restrict their membership by excluding a "protected class" (i.e. on the basis of sex, race, religion, etc.). That's why public schools are not allowed to have a "Bible study" club (endorses on particular religion), which was a hot issue when I was in school in the late '70s.

 

I knew of NO internal clubs in my school that had any sort of restricted membership. Unless you are considering sports to be "clubs", and I suppose the band could be considered a "club". But in both of those cases, not having athletic or musical talent is not a "protected class". Could you provide an example of a student club (at a PUBLIC school) that restricts membership from a protected class of individuals?

[evmori]

Ed, I think the difference between a club that uses school facilities and a chartered Pack is that the pack is owned by the school and therefore becomes a direct extension to the school and its policies. The club is just that, a self governed/independent group owned by its membership.

 

I was actually referring to school clubs like the Science Club & the Math Club. Those are "owned" by the school and limited to the students in the school.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[evmori]

 

 

That's why public schools are not allowed to have a "Bible study" club (endorses on particular religion), which was a hot issue when I was in school in the late '70s.

 

Actually, the high school I attended still has a bible study club.

 

 

"Student Christian Fellowship

 

Student Christian Fellowship is a group of young Christians who meet weekly to study God's Word, pray together, and fellowship with one another in God's name. In the past, the group has worked through Bible Study programs such as The Purpose Driven Life, but this year we intend to focus on using the Bible to answer the tough questions that teens face."

 

I'm not going to give the name of the high school, but I would bet if you searched high schools all over the country, you would find these type of clubs exist. Remember, it is the freedom of religion not from religion.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[ManassasEagle]

Ed- Plenty of public schools have those sorts of "Bible Study" or "Christian Fellowship" or even "Jewish Studies" clubs. And yes, they are technically part of the school just like a school-chartered BSA unit would be or a Chess Club would be. The thing that makes the BSA different is that it is the only one of those that discriminates (albeit legally) against a protected class. The way the religious clubs are allowed is that they do not discriminate against a protected class. That is, if an athiest wants to join the Bible Study club, the club will not deny them membership. Granted, it may not be very likely to happen, but that is how those clubs get around the restriction. The BSA is not willing to make that concession (ie. to not deny membership to athiests) and therefore are not in the same boat as those religious clubs.

[DanKroh]

Ed: "Actually, the high school I attended still has a bible study club.

 

"Student Christian Fellowship

 

Student Christian Fellowship is a group of young Christians who meet weekly to study God's Word, pray together, and fellowship with one another in God's name. In the past, the group has worked through Bible Study programs such as The Purpose Driven Life, but this year we intend to focus on using the Bible to answer the tough questions that teens face."

 

I'm not going to give the name of the high school, but I would bet if you searched high schools all over the country, you would find these type of clubs exist. Remember, it is the freedom of religion not from religion."

 

As ManassasEagle already pointed out, these groups are allowed to exist within a public school as long as they do not try to deny membership to ANYONE who wants to join. So yes, if a young atheist wanted to join the group to study the Bible, they could not legally be denied membership. Furthermore, as soon as a public school has ONE religious club, they cannot deny the same access to any other religious club that wants to form.

 

So if your high school's Student Christian Fellowship is actually restricting their membership to Christians only (and if it is a public school), then they are, in fact, doing so illegally.

[GernBlansten]

Ed,

In the case of band or sports, I don't think schools can discriminate. Everyone has equal access to those programs. Now that doesn't mean that everyone will play, only the best will get that. But everyone has a chance to try out. Those without enough talent either move on to something else or are assigned a non-performance role in the program if their heart is set on it. BSA doesn't even allow that.

[Hunt]

In the assumption that Ed is not deliberately refusing to understand this, let me try putting it a different way.

BSA is a private organization, and thus can legally discriminate against atheists.

A public school is a public entity, and thus cannot legally discriminate against atheists.

When a public school actually charters a BSA unit, that particular unit is no longer entirely private--it is owned and operated by a public entity, the school. That is what makes it different from BSA itself, and from a BSA unit chartered by a private entity. Thus, because that particular unit is actually owned and operated by a public entity, it is subject to the laws that apply to the public entity, and it can't discriminate against atheists. It has nothing to do with whether BSA can discriminate.

As to school clubs, it is essential to distinguish between clubs actually sponsored by the school, and those that are simply allowed to meet there as a part of equal access. Clubs actually sponsored by the school (i.e., meet during class time, get school funds, have a faculty sponsor, etc.) cannot discriminate based on a protected class, like race or religion. They can discriminate based on unprotected characteristics--ie, you can't get on the tennis team if you can't play tennis well.

To restate this, the problem is that the SCHOOL can't discriminate against atheists, and when it actually owns and operates a club or group that doesn't allow atheists, the SCHOOL is illegally discriminating.