Street Wrong To Evict Boy Scouts

[stlscouter]

The special district was also challenged because they did not have non-special scouts in them. What a wonderful program where special needs scouts were able to take advantage of the camp resource and the volunteers made a wonderful experience for them. But it's gone now.

Philly is still about $$$ not unlike eminent domain, just a new expost facto ruling to make it happen. Pass a new oridinance in 2003 and apply it to a 1928 contract.

[MarkS]

fgoodwin wrote...

 

"The problem with your "if-then" is that no court has ever ruled that it is unconstitutional for schools to charter scout units."

 

You're right but what do you think the chances of the BSA winning the issue in court? Where do you want the BSA to spend its money in this case. On litigation or on the boys? I'd rather spend it on the program.

[evmori]

Merlyn,

Learn to be less of a moron! What about my other examples regarding the sports teams & band? Heck, kids try out for those & get tossed! Aren't they being discriminated against? Or isn't there enough cash in it for the ACLU (who have nothing to do with our liberties)?

 

Ed Mori

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1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, I've answered your same questions before, and you simply can't learn things.

 

Public schools can't discriminate on the basis of religion.

 

Public schools CAN discriminate in other ways.

[evmori]

And the BSA can legally discriminate based on religion. Don't know that a school can legally discriminate based on talent, though.

 

So, Merlyn, not all discrimination is the same, eh?

 

Ed Mori

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1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, I've pointed out your equivocation on the term "discrimination" for some time now, and no, not all discrimination is the same. And when a public school charters a BSA unit, the school is supposedly agreeing to enforce the BSA's religious requirements, which a public school can't do.

[Hunt]

"What you don't seem to get, Hunt, is that legally, it was the school's youth group."

 

I do get this, Merlyn, really I do, which you would understand if you read my posts. You are right that TECHNICALLY and ON PAPER the chartering organization "owns" the scouting unit. What you don't seem to get is that in the REAL WORLD public schools typically do not "run" scouting units, nor do the actual human beings in the schools and the scouting units think of the unit as the "school's youth group." They think of it as the Cub Scout Pack that meets at the school--which it continues to be after the signature on the charter changes to the PTA or somebody else. Therefore in the REAL WORLD (as opposed to the world of legal theory and ideological purity), the primary impact of BSA's capitulation to ACLU's demands was that a bunch of volunteers had to run around and find somebody else to sign the charter papers. I see that this nevertheless seems important to you, and I guess everybody needs a hobby--but really, all you've done is inconvenience some people, and it's not even that much of an inconvenience.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

No Hunt, you really don't understand. There are examples of e.g. the ACLU suing to get a 10 commandments off a courthouse lawn, and a church across the street agrees to have it on their lawn instead. Now, you might say that nothing has changed, since the 10 commandments monument is just on the other side of the street, but you're completely ignoring the difference between the government doing it vs. a private organization doing it, and why that difference is important.

[BrentAllen]

Merlyn,

Your example just proved Hunt's point. The Ten Commandments you mentioned were moved - a noticeable, physical change to anyone passing by. When the CO for a Pack changed from the school to the PTA, there was no noticeable physical change. To anyone looking in from the outside, everything stayed the same. Even to those on the inside, everything looked the same.

 

If an atheist boy wanted to join our Pack last year, chartered by & meeting at our school, he would have been turned down. If an atheist boy wanted to join our Pack now, which still meets at the school, he will be turned down. Nothing has changed. The school is not offering any other Scouting program for him to join. The much-heralded agreement did not create any other Scouting organization at the public institutions, so again, nothing has really changed.

 

Please tell me how anyone in the general public would notice any difference. If they didn't hear about the agreement, which didn't get any coverage down here that I'm aware of, how would they know about this change?

[evmori]

Actually, Merlyn, all discrimination is the same. That's where you and I differ. You only care about something that effects you. You could care less that the Girl Scouts won't admit boys or the Boy Scouts won't admit girls. That is also discrimination. Now I'm not saying I want boys in Girl Scouts & visa versa. What I am saying is all discrimination is the same. Some maybe more evident like blacks being forced to use different bathrooms or women not being able to vote. And now blacks can use the same bathrooms as everyone else and women can vote. But atheists will never be allowed to be members of the BSA. And Scout units will continue to go on meeting in public schools and other public buildings. And all your belly aching & whining & crying isn't going to change that.

 

Don't be discouraged, Merlyn. Keep up the good fight. You are affecting nothing!

 

Ed Mori

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1 Peter 4:10

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

BrentAllen writes:

If an atheist boy wanted to join our Pack last year, chartered by & meeting at our school, he would have been turned down. If an atheist boy wanted to join our Pack now, which still meets at the school, he will be turned down. Nothing has changed.

 

Nope - in the first case, you'd be subject to a lawsuit, and lose. That's quite a difference. You keep ignoring that, and that's the main reason the BSA agreed to move all their charters.

 

Ed, if all discrimination is the same, then public schools, which have separate bathrooms for boys & girls, could also have separate bathrooms for white and non-white students. All discrimination is the same in your view, right?

[evmori]

Ed, if all discrimination is the same, then public schools, which have separate bathrooms for boys & girls, could also have separate bathrooms for white and non-white students. All discrimination is the same in your view, right?

 

Clueless! Having separate bathrooms for different genders isn't discrimination. Having separate bathrooms for different ethnic backgrounds is. Look it up, please!

 

Ed Mori

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1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"Nope - in the first case, you'd be subject to a lawsuit, and lose. That's quite a difference. You keep ignoring that, and that's the main reason the BSA agreed to move all their charters."

 

First of all, BSA wouldn't be subject to a lawsuit, the school would be--it's the school ACLU would have to sue. But if there WAS such a lawsuit (far from certain) and if the school did lose (likely but not certain with our new Supreme Court), the result would be that one signature would disappear from the Charter and a different one would appear. Nothing else would change. No public funds would be saved (rather, the public funds spent to defend the lawsuit would be the only funds involved). The unit would continue to meet right there in the same locations with the same members, same leaders, same membership requirements--and most people in the school, the unit, and the community would never even know, understand, or care about the difference. So the end result would be that public funds--including your tax dollars--would be spent to defend a lawsuit that, even if you win, would have virtually no impact other than the technical correction of a paper sponsorship problem. As Brent points out, it is completely different from the 10 Commandments case, since in your case there would be no visible change, unless people choose to read your press release.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Ed, you're the one saying all discrimination is the same, not me.

 

Hunt, I think a lawsuit could easily succeed against the BSA, as they clearly knew or should have known that they were inducing a public school into practicing religious discrimination. In Minnesota, that's a crime.

[evmori]

Hunt,

Excellent point!

 

Merlyn,

Maybe you should equivocate the term discrimination. You might really learn something! Then again, since you are so stuck in your ways, I doubt it.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10