Street Wrong To Evict Boy Scouts

[fgoodwin]

Street Wrong To Evict Boy Scouts

 

http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16963263&BRD=2737&PAG=461

http://tinyurl.com/qo4r4

 

07/25/2006

 

By: RAJ BHAKTA, Special To The Evening Bulletin

 

In the midst of Philadelphia's worst crime wave in memory, including 220 murders already this year, a shrinking police force and failing schools, who has Philadelphia Mayor John Street bravely targeted as public enemy number one?

 

The Boy Scouts of America.

 

The Boy Scouts Cradle of Liberty Council, which serves 87,000 scouts in Philadelphia, Montgomery County and Delaware County, has kept its headquarters on public grounds near Logan Circle since 1928. In a more sane era, the City Council promised that the Boy Scouts may remain there with no rent charged "in perpetuity." Since then, the Scouts have spent millions of dollars renovating this structure over the years and paid for all its upkeep.

 

But now, the city of Philadelphia, under the leadership of Street, is seeking to evict the Boy Scouts from their city-owned Center City headquarters because of their alleged refusal to admit open homosexuals as members. This, however, is of course a lie. Right on the Scout's Web site it says, "Prejudice, intolerance and unlawful discrimination in any form are unacceptable within the ranks of Cradle of Liberty Council."

 

This strikes me as the most ridiculous political action taken this year by any politician in America. Why now, while the city suffers its worst quality-of-life crisis in recent memory, does John Street push a radical agenda rather than face this city's genuine problems?

 

And who suffers in the end for this piece of political theater? 40,000 inner city children who belong to the Scouts. The streets of Philadelphia are unsafe, yet Mayor Street chooses to go after the one organization that has done so much to improve the lives of thousands of children in this region. He is taking on a group that has helped many young people steer clear of criminal activity.

 

Because John Street has chosen to waste precious time and energy on this matter, I fear he doesn't know about the dangers brewing within his own city. So let me spell it out for him: Crime is up astronomically in Philadelphia, Mr. Mayor. Drug use is skyrocketing. In Northeast Philly, where I was born, the numbers are staggering. Assaults have risen over 400 percent in some areas of the Northeast including Mayfair, Fox Chase and Burholme.

 

We Philadelphians should take pride in our long-standing support for the Boy Scouts and should let the mayor know, loud and clear, that we do not support his hateful treatment of this group.

 

If the scourges of crime and drugs persist in our neighborhoods, only God knows who the city will target next. Perhaps the Salvation Army.

 

Raj Bhakta is a candidate for Congress in Pennsylvania's 13th District.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

But now, the city of Philadelphia, under the leadership of Street, is seeking to evict the Boy Scouts from their city-owned Center City headquarters because of their alleged refusal to admit open homosexuals as members. This, however, is of course a lie. Right on the Scout's Web site it says, "Prejudice, intolerance and unlawful discrimination in any form are unacceptable within the ranks of Cradle of Liberty Council."

 

That this is a lie, is itself a lie. The CoL council was forced by the national BSA to kick out Gregory Lattera.

 

Notice that the CoL council was not allowed by the national BSA to sign a nondiscrimination agreement. That their web page says "unlawful discrimination" is unacceptable says nothing about "lawful discrimination" - the BSA's disrimination is lawful, so rejecting only "unlawful discrimination" does nothing. Such weasel-wording is just a dishonest attempt to deceive people.

[molscouter]

Two points.

 

1. What part is the "lie"?

 

From the article you posted last week:

 

"Mayor Street will evict the Boy Scouts's Cradle of Liberty Council from its city-owned Center City headquarters, or make the organization pay fair-market rent, unless it stops discriminating against gays."

 

So the mayor isn't trying to evict the Boy Scout's because of the gay policy? Seems to be true.

 

The webpage doesn't say those words? No, that seems true as well.

 

So the writer, likely not researching the issue in the depth that you have, draws a different conclusion than you would? That makes him a liar? Your own web site has (or had, I'm not going to bother to look) "lies" all over it re. schools sponsoring troops and packs. You made the assumption that if the organization had the word school in it that it should go on the list. You didn't research it. Therefore, by your definition, you "lied". Adding a disclaimer is weasel wording.

 

Now, totally on the other side:

 

2. He's running for Congress. A politician not telling the truth. Gee, I thnk I'm gonna keel over dead of a heart attack from the shock of that one.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

So the writer, likely not researching the issue in the depth that you have, draws a different conclusion than you would?

 

No, the writer wrote "alleged refusal to admit open homosexuals as members. This, however, is of course a lie." That statement is NOT a lie, as the CoL council HAS done so. The CoL council excludes gays, as it is forced to by the national BSA.

 

And, of course, my list of government charters has always had a statement that the list is generated by computer and that there will be some on the list that are actually not government agencies, and some that were missed and that should be on the list, and requested that any corrections be sent in. As is, it identified thousands of BSA units chartered to government entities.

 

Now, if you'd like to talk about "weasel wording", the national BSA said that by now ALL government chartered BSA units would have been re-chartered, and that any new charters would not allow government entities as chartering organizations, yet there are STILL about 3,000 such units. Some councils, such as the Sam Houston Area Council, appear to have done nothing to recharter units away from public schools, and the national BSA still issues charters to e.g. Pack 895 for James Bowie Elementary School in Dallas, which is easily googled to be a public school.

 

Now, seeing that the BSA knows exactly how many units are chartered to public schools (see http://www.marketing.scouting.org/resources/factsheets/02-179.html ), all they have to do is check that total and see if it's not zero. If it's NOT zero, they have to recharter those units.

[BrentAllen]

I'm glad this stuff keeps Merlyn up at night. He truly deserves what he gets.

 

How about Pack 733 at Arthur Kramer Elementary? Are they chartered by a public school? Here is the web address: http://www.kramerelementary.org/pack_733.html

Sure looks like it, doesn't it?

Read the page and you will find the truth - the only problem is, will Merlyn recognize the truth when he sees it? Now you have only 3,880 units to check on! Knock yourself out!

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Brent, now you're saying when the BSA's own fact sheet says that public schools charter 3,881 units, they're lying, and including units chartered by parents' groups? Are you saying that the 3,881 units includes pack 733, even though that isn't chartered by a public school?

 

The BSA fact sheet includes "Parents' Clubs in Schools: 237,243 youth, 6,154 units", which is probably where pack 733 would fall under.

 

So did you have a point?

[molscouter]

Merlyn,

 

Funny how the BSA and anything associated with it must be 100% accurate (as if any large entity can be) yet your own list doesn't have to be. It's not up to us to correct your list, it's up to you to correct it. It doesn't matter if it was generated by computer nor that you put a disclaimer on it. The fact is it contains erroneous information and therefore, by your definition, lies. It's worse because you admit it contains false information. The fact that you are too lazy to research and correct it exposes you as a hypocrite. Hold yourself to the same standard you seem to require of everyone else.

 

As for Mr. Bhakta, should he or a staffer have researched the issue better? Sure. But that does not necessaruily make him a liar.

 

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Insuring that the BSA stops issuing charters to government agencies is hardly requiring that everything be "100% accurate", but it IS a requirement that they not violate the law. Government agencies can't discriminate on the basis of religion.

[BrentAllen]

Merlyn, I really don't want to help you sleep any better. However, I do enjoy exposing your ignorance.

Those numbers are for 2005, correct? The agreement went into effect in 2005. Units recharter in either December or January. Those numbers are for units that rechartered in December 04 or January 05. The 2006 numbers will show the true results, after the agreement. FYI, my unit was chartered by our elementary school until we rechartered in January 06. So our unit is in that 3,881 count, but won't be in the 2006 count.

How pitiful that your life is measured by such shallow victories.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

Brent, that BSA fact sheet is not the source of my claim that there are still BSA units chartered to government agencies. And yes, I do in fact consider stopping thousands of public schools from violating the civil rights of atheists to be a victory, and hardly a shallow one. Civil rights are important to me.

[BrentAllen]

Tell you what, Merlyn - if I ever actually run into any atheists who realize their civil rights were being violated because our Pack was chartered by an elementary school, I'll be sure to point out that you were the man, the champion, who protected them. Fair enough?

 

The atheists I do know have never said a word about it. Should I enlighten them?

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

BrentAllen writes:

Tell you what, Merlyn - if I ever actually run into any atheists who realize their civil rights were being violated because our Pack was chartered by an elementary school, I'll be sure to point out that you were the man, the champion, who protected them. Fair enough?

 

Sure thing. Be sure and tell them that your Pack was owned and operated by a public school, and that atheists could not be members. A clear first amendment violation.

 

The atheists I do know have never said a word about it. Should I enlighten them?

 

Absolutely. It's quite possible they didn't realize that your Pack was chartered by a public school, or that they don't understand that each Pack is a youth group owned & operated by its chartering organization.

 

It's also very likely your school administrators didn't realize this; did they realize that the school would be practicing religious discrimination by chartering a cub scout pack?

 

By the way, back when your pack was chartered by a public school, what would you have done with e.g. an atheist cub scout applicant, or a cub scout whose parents refused to sign the Declaration of Religious Principle?

[BrentAllen]

I'm pretty sure they are going to say "So what?" I hate to burst your bubble, but most people out there, including atheists, think this is one of the biggest non-issues they have ever seen!

 

What would I say? The same thing I would say now. It doesn't change anything. That is what you don't get, Merlyn - it doesn't change a thing! Whether we are chartered by the school or the PTA, is doesn't matter. We still meet at the school, nearly all our Scouts come from the school, they wear their uniforms to school. Nobody other than the CC, ACM and me (CM) even know the charter was changed. To them, nothing ever happened. I'm glad you feel you are saving the world - too bad nobody, including all those supposedly affected atheists, even know about it. That is what I mean by shallow victories. At the end of the day, you have changed nothing.

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

BrentAllen writes:

What would I say? The same thing I would say now. It doesn't change anything.

 

No, that isn't the question I asked.

 

What would you do if an atheist cub scout applied for membership while your pack was chartered by a public school?

 

Would you refuse him membership? Please answer yes or no.

 

That is what you don't get, Merlyn - it doesn't change a thing! Whether we are chartered by the school or the PTA, is doesn't matter.

 

Sure it does; if you are chartered by a public school, it's illegal for you to refuse membership to atheists, and if you did refuse, the public school, the BSA council, the national BSA, and possibly you personally would be subject to a civil rights lawsuit.

 

Now, would you mind answering my original question? When your pack was chartered by a public school, would you admit atheist cub scouts (or cub scouts with atheist parents who would refuse to sign the DRP)?

[BrentAllen]

No.

Just as now, I would not allow them to join.

 

It never happened before, it will probably never happen now. There never was anybody to sue us, or complain. Again, nothing has changed!

 

This is a victory for who? If you are trying to get the BSA to change the policy, how is this a victory for you? It has not changed the policy one iota. I'm glad you are excited about it. Rearranging the sock drawer must be a humdinger in your household!