Global politics and scouting

[Zahnada]

I was wondering, with the current crisis in the Middle East, the War on Terror, and the conflict in Iraq, do any of you make efforts to educate your scouts on global issues during meetings?

 

Since the US is so crucial to the state of the world, knowing about these conflicts seems to be an inherent part of "duty to country." Afterall, these scouts we train and teach today may soon be the ones fighting these wars. I also like the thought of the youth of this country actually being knowledgable of world events.

 

I'd like to be able to teach these things to the boys in my troop. But the problem with teaching politics is... how do you keep it from becoming political?

 

For instance, there are two very different sides to the war in Iraq. If a boy asks "Why are we fighting in Iraq?" What do you say?

 

a. "We're fighting to keep the world safe from terror."

b. "We're fighting to get oil for Bush and his buddies."

c. "We're fighting because..."

 

I don't want any political/partisan preaching at meetings (and I'm sure parents don't want that either). But I do want scouts to be aware of the state of the nation and its position in the world.

[Lisabob]

I teach political science for a living and so not surprisingly, I agree these topics are really important - and difficult to discuss.

 

I would not use scouting as a vehicle for pushing my personal political views, just as I don't use the classroom for that purpose. The three citizenship merit badges offer a really good opportunity for boys who are interested to learn more about the political world though, and since these are Eagle-required, maybe here's a place where discussion (not proselytizing) fits.

 

At the cub level, well there are opportunities to introduce scouts to the world at large without entering into politics too - such as the language and cultures beltloop, or setting up pen pals for a den with an equivalent scouting group in another country. Get them familiar with the world and maybe later they'll be interested in world politics and history too.

 

 

Lisa'bob

 

[Lisabob]

By the way a lot of packs and troops have done things to recognize or honor soldiers lately - care packages, letter writing, visits, etc. - and I think this is a good way to help broaden scouts' understanding of the world too. Regardless of where one stands on US policy, most reasonable people can agree to recognize and honor the sacrifices our soldiers are making.

[GernBlansten]

Our former SM, now an ASM is a lawyer. He is also the MBC for all the citz badges. I've sat in on a few MB sessions. He does an excellent job asking the scouts how they feel America interacts with the world and within itself. He doesn't interject his political positions, he just creates an astmosphere that fosters frank discussions.

For instance, in one session covering the Bill of Rights. He opens the discussion with "George Bush should be thrown in jail for the crimes he committed as president. Do you think I should be able to say that? Why?"

He'll follow up saying "I am Catholic and everyone who isn't Catholic shouldn't be allowed vote. Do you think I'm correct here?"

I'm not sure some parents appreciate the diversity of some of the opinions spoken. I do however. It makes the scouts think.

[packsaddle]

My response to the boys is:

"The President and Congress decided to engage in this conflict and a majority of the people agreed. Now it is no longer clear what the reasons were and different people hold different views. Hopefully we'll eventually know more about this."

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Its easy to explain why we are in iraq, the UN passed 18 resolutions in 16 years demanding Saddam Hussein comply with the terms of the surrender agreement of the first Gulf War and Saddam wouldn't. Rather than do nothing, President Bush decided to act before Saddam got to big to deal with so the US did what the UN was threatening.

 

Funny, the whole thing could have been avoided if Saddam would have done what he promised to do, allow the weapons inspectors freedom of movement.

 

Most scouts can understand what happens when you break a promise

[packsaddle]

Except that in retrospect, there wasn't anything to inspect after all. The sanctions worked. Saddam was a paper tiger making a lot of noise and little else outside his own borders. So what's the body count today? How much longer will it take to establish that stable model democracy that will be spread to others in the region? How many more American lives?

[scoutldr]

And off we go!!!!!

[Fuzzy Bear]

Ducks have never been known to return fire one time in all of the years of being shot at and missed. I am guessing that they are eternal optimists. FB

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

as is often said, hindsight is 20:20. But if 3 years after 9/11 biologic weapons are deployed in Atlanta that get traced back to Iraq, I wonder what Bush's job rating would be?

 

Lets say you are a Den Leader and its a Cubbies birthday, the mom has supplied a huge sheet cake and you go about the job of cutting it up. You look down and see 3 knives you brought from your kitchen and start to think, I thought I brought 4. Then you notice Andy, the ADHD kid dancing around with his hands behind his back. Andy has been in trouble in before, can't sit still, always "bugging" who ever he sits next to, maybe "flicking" the neighbors ears. He has learned the old "pull my finger" trick and finishes it off in the traditional fashion. He has told you he wants to be a Boy Scout because they get to use knives. And, he fancies himself a knife fighting expert, demonstrating his techniques with sticks on multiple occasions. So you ask Andy to show you his hands, and he smiles and laughs and says sure I will, but he doesn't. So you look around and all the Cubbies are hard at their task, and Andy still has his hands behind his back and refuses to show you his hands. What do you do?

[Lisabob]

Sorry guys but I think rehashing why/whether we should have gone to Iraq at this time is both futile and somewhat irrelevant. The question as I see it is, how do we engage the boys in learning about world politics (and our own gov't too) without injecting our own political views? Kids at this age are very impressionable and you could probably easily impose your own world view on them. But is that our job? I don't think so. Our job is to teach them to analyze and understand these things for themselves.

 

Now I'm not saying that if a boy asks you a direct question that you should completely evade it. But I am saying that one had better step carefully in these matters. I don't think, for example, that a discussion of geopolitics makes for a good SM minute. And I think that when we give boys our political opinions, we should be careful to make it clear that that's what we're giving - opinions, which may not be held by other, equallly reasonable, people.

 

By the way I love the citizenship mbs. The requirements (in particular, for the cit. in the world badge) mirror many of the things I teach in my introductory college classes on the same subjects. And when I get scouts who have done these MBs? Well they nearly always have a passion for, and deeper understanding of, the subject matter.

 

Lisa'bob

[OldGreyEagle]

Lisabob, I totally and absolutely disagree.

 

Any talk of why we are in Iraq has to start with the treaty that Saddam signed at the end of the first Gulf War and his antics in expelling the weapons inspectors and the shell game he played with where they could and could not look. And that there were 18 resolutions fom the UN saying that Saddam was to comply to his promises. The US did not go into Iraq unilaterally, the UN Security Council agreed 18 times that Saddam should honor his committments.

 

Many scouts do not remember the first Gulf War, were they even alive then? I think the past history is important to know when discussing Iraq(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Trevorum]

IMHO, the relationship between Scouting and politics should be the same as that between Scouting and religion: we should attempt to educate our scouts about the diversity of beliefs in this country without actively promoting any particular one.

 

Similarly, the relationship between Scouting and patriotism should be the same as that between Scouting and reverence: active promotion of both while recognizing that there are different ways of expressing either.

 

btw, one of my favorite questions in BoRs is "How do you do your 'Duty to Country'? We discuss a teenagers rights and responsibilities and eventually wend our way to agreeing that learning about our country, government, and history is the best preparation for becoming a responsible, voting citizen.

[SR540Beaver]

No, no, no......ain't gonna do it. Not gonna get invovled. Gonna keep my mouth shut. Oh heck, why not. OGE, how can the same people who call the UN worthless and irrelevant choose to deem their resolutions worthy of enforcing? And if they are worthy of enforcing, isn't it the UN's job to enforce them? If you threaten your child with spanking for poor behavior, do you want your neighbor spanking your child when he witnesses him doing something wrong? It just doesn't add up. We used the UN resolutions as justification for something we already wanted to do, not to enforce the resolutions for the UN.

 

Allow me to suggest some interesting reading at http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_07_17/cover.html. It is an article in the current edition of American Conservative Magazine called American Petrocracy.

 

I'm with LisaBob. Political discussion like religion and sex have no place within the unit meeting beyond a very generic high level approach such as encouraging duty to God.

[SemperParatus]

"Do any of you make efforts to educate your scouts on global issues during meetings?"

 

No. Scouting should be a nice retreat from 'issues'. They get enough of that thrown at them from school and the media.