Winter cabin camping and women

[Glenn]

For those of you who Cabin camp during the winter months, I have a question about a requirement in the "Guide to Safe Scouting". The guide states that adults and children of the SAME sex may share a "sleeping room". So unless the cabin has separate rooms, this means that any woman that wishes to camp, must have a separate cabin. For the women volunteers of this forum, is this how your troop functions? Again, I find this requirement overly restrictive, and will limit our winter camping choices.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts and responses.

[sctmom]

Cabin camping is not something that is really done much around here, so I don't know how troops handle it.

 

Speaking as a woman, I think a separate room or cabin is not asking too much. I can be very discreet and have no problem sharing a room with my son. Yet, I do not want to share a room with other young boys even if it is just to sleep.

 

I think this is a good rule. It avoids any possible problems of even innocent things like a young boy seeing what is inside a woman's overnight bag.

 

 

[EagleWB]

Once we rented the dinning hall at camp for a winter weekend. We partitioned off, with tarps, three areas for sleeping. One for youth, one for male leaders and one for female leaders. This is the only time we did cabin camping in the winter, we usually camp in tents. I'm not sure if this satisfied the G2SS requirements or not, but it was the best we could do without the females sleeping in tents outside.

[Glenn]

We only have one camping area nearby that has separate rooms in the cabin. This would satisfy the requirements. However, the boys would be bored to do the same area November, December, and January.

 

If we choose to tent camp during these months, I believe a lot of the parents would not allow their children to attend. Perhaps we as leaders need to be better informed on how to successfully tent camp in cold temperatures. Ideas on this would be welcome also.

 

P.S. My replies will be limited as I will be traveling for work this week. Hopefully I can dial in a couple times to read and respond.

[LauraT7]

I have to laugh at this one - because the 2 yrs ago our troop went "cabin camping" & the other female leaders and I took one "breath" of the musty air in the cabin and said "well take the tent!"

 

The cabin was so old, smokey and musty that I KNEW my allergies would have had fits!

 

Seriously - We were much more comfortable in our tent than the boys in the cabin - as evidenced by my son and some other boys leaving in the middle of the night to join the few in the tents - because they couldn't breathe in the smoky cabin! LOL!

 

this year, more boys opted for the tents to start with - but we still had a few who weren't really equipped for the cold camping (despite many, many lectures and demonstrations of winter camipng prep) and opted for the cabin and an all night fire.

 

Women should NOT be quartered with the boys - but in some situations, you have to be practical and use some common sense.

 

I think either the moms have to come prepared to sleep in a tent and not in the cabin or partition off an area in the cabin if possible. Heck if it's the right kind of 'cabin' - they can sleep in the bathroom or kitchen, even! Or what about putting up a small tent INSIDE the "cabin" for privacy?

 

If it had gotten really, dangerously cold - If someone was ill or in danger, I would have moved them into the cabin, if necessary, regardless of their sex. if in an emergency, I HAD to sleep in the same room with the boys - I doubt it would scar them for life! what are they gonna "see" anyway? a big lump in a sleeping bag?

 

We had an overnight a few months ago where the boys did a sleep-in at the church, and the ONLY adults female ASM's. We slept in the hallway outside the room the boys were in - mostly to keep them from playing around the church at night. But they were going to and fro past us anyway - to the bathroom and such.

 

When Camping in summer, I sleep in a t-shirt and shorts - in winter, I sleep in a sweatsuit. there's nothing for the boys to see that they don't see during the daytime. I change in my tent, with all the lights off - hey, tents aren't that "private" either! And I think some of the "mystery" dissappears, when they find out that I snore just as badly as the male scouters! LOL!

 

But if you're going camping in the winter - why not tent it? its so much more fun than a cabin and the boys can get their "polor bear" patches!

 

Winter camping is GREAT - NO MOSQUITOES!

 

 

[mk9750]

Glen,

 

A few ideas:

 

Right in your own back yard is Seven Ranges. The Akela Cabin holds @ 28 people. It has a patio off the back that is now sided on three walls. There are usually extra cots outside durung the winter, and there are also picnic tables out there. We have the adults (and usually our older Scouts) sleep either in tents or out on the patio to provide seperate quarters. There is a bathroom indoors, but you have to go out onto the patio to get into the bathroom.

 

The Greater Cleveland Council has a camp way out east named Beaumont. It is SR 45 in Rome, Ohio, I think. They have cabins that include a small 4 person quarter with a door for this kind of problem. There also is a sleeping room and seperate dining area in each cabin (although there is no door between them) that could allow for some seperation, too. The only negetive I've encountered with this camp is that the campmaster treats people with absolute disdain. It seems like it might be just out of council Troops, I'm not sure. But in our experience (and assuming he's still there... It's been three years since we've been back, because of him), it wasn't worth the hassle.

 

Lastly, Canton is a great area to do outdoor winter camping! It is a great skill to have, and one I think we have an obligation to teach to people who live in northern climates. I think you made a point about parents not letting their kids camp if they knew it would be outdoors. With the right preparation and training (which I also think you should provide for the adults, too, so they know that their children are being taught how to camp safely in the cold), and if you make sure that their equipment is appropriate, they will be more ready to handle an emergency situation in the snow and cold.

 

Around here, we have a constant battle to make our Klondike more that Cub Scout Wacky Winter days by changing the emphisis from games and eating indoors to skill events that promote winter camping knowledge. The roadblock we have always incountered is that some Troops around here just don't know how to camp in the winter. Well, that would be a problem. But it could be solved with preparation and planning.

 

Consider adding a real outdoor winter campout to you program next year. Than start reading and learning about what goes into making a winter campout a success, and teach your boys. You'll be glad you did!

 

Lastly, Bob White made the comment that the Youth Protection guidelines must be followed whether you agree with them or not. He is right - I think that in the case of a cabin campout, with two deep leadership, the issue is silly. However, Rules is rules, as they say. I don't want to be put in a position to be asked why I didn't follow the rules if something went wrong.

 

Good luck with your program!

 

Mark

[SagerScout]

Glenn- you sure sound like a nice guy! Thanks for being concerned for the comfort of your women volunteers. Here's how I see it as a woman volunteer myself -

 

I think Laura's points are valid - a mom in a sweatsuit wrapped in a sleeping bag is not likely to stir the fantasies of any teen boys, and in an emergency situation such as a blizzard coming in and extreme cold common sense should prevail.

 

However, for routine winter camping, I think female scouters should "Be Prepared" with their own lodging and sleeping gear. I don't wish any boys or men on this forum to take offense, but I'd much rather have my own place anyway. You can laugh at my air mattress all you want, but it keeps me comfy and warm.

 

Julia

[evmori]

If I'm not mistaken, for women and men to stay in the same cabin, there must be a separate room for hte women regardless of what she is sleeping in. Otherwise, either the men or women will have to sleep in a tent.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[flyingember]

in our area there's a scout cabin. it's used off and on for all the troops in town.

 

we used to use it semi-regularly but not always even inside.

 

the building is two-stories with a heating system running off a wood fire. for our webelos campout the scouts stay outside and the webelos inside. we partition off a corner with tarps using nails setup for just this purpose for any women. the webelos all stay upstairs. this is perfect because you can hear any movement at night from downstairs.

 

any other time it'll be a seperate area if necessary (lockin) but usually they just get a seperate tent. at camp we've had women mostly every year since 94 or so.

 

the majority of the time in the winter we're outside. I camped in sub-zero temps, with 30mph winds, next to a lake, in a tent. from oct-march I spend all but one month outside. its more fun that way

[fancyfelines]

First of all, I would like to say this website is very insightful for any leader needing any BSA information. Thank you.

 

Secondly, in response to this issue,I find as woman scouter, that unfortunately we do have to take some extra precautions when it comes to camping with the troop. I strongly recommend that all leaders/parents in a troop read Guide to Safe Scouting and agree beforehand how to handle certain sleeping accommodations. This will avoid some problems that might occur.

 

Having been on the majority of overnights for the last four and one-half years, I have always provided my own tent and personal gear. This allows the boys the fullest extent of their own equipment, and allows other women to attend an overnight without some of those very worries. However, in the last year or so, more mothers have taken part in overnight activities. It has come to the consensus that the committee purchase a tent, specifically for us women, since the majority of the male leaders sleep in one large tent. As our membership by leaders increases, male or female, it is important to continue that solution.

 

With that said, resident camp has proven to be a challenge when I have attended camp three times in the last 4 years. The first year I was able to tent by myself in a wall tent provided at camp, and during the session, another female leader from our troop joined me for a few days. The second year, the campsite could not accommodate me within the troop's site, so I spent that session with another woman in another campsite from a different troop.

 

This coming year will be interesting, pertaining to leaders sleeping in a cabin vs. wall tent. We have more women leaders attending than men. It has already been decided, if that does turn out to be the case, then the women will attain the cabin, provided that we are the only troop in a campsite. If there is not a huge significant number of women attending, then the camp itself will allow all women from camp to sleep in one/two cabins somewhere in the camp and not necessarily with our respective troop(s). Each council's camp shall have its own policies that must be followed.

 

Regardless, winter camping vs. summer camping, shall always follow basic rules. Women: use discretion about clothing options, Be prepared for your own accommodations, and remember, that we, along with other non-classified leaders, are the guest.

 

We women are setting the example to the boys, and must put our best feet forward to uphold all that Scouting signifies. We can still provide effective instruction while maintaining a sense of modesty amongst teenage boys.

 

And yes, I do have a very small light in my tent, for dressing purposes, at which is placed appropriately as to not embarrass myself or others when changing.

 

I encourage mothers to participate more fully in their young man's quest for Eagle.

 

J.M.

[Glenn]

Once again, thanks for all the replies. I emailed our Scoutmaster with this thread address and I am sure we will use your suggestions.

[hops_scout]

One quick thing, fancyfelines

I really dont see the need to sleep in a cabin during summer camp unless you live in the artic or something, but there may be other reasons you didnt say.