scout law

[Lisabob]

I find it distressing when scouters start telling other scouters with whom they disagree to leave the forum, when scouters make glib reference to true historical atrocities to refer to their political opponents, and generally get nasty with each other. The scout law encompasses many behaviors and values and not one of them includes threatening, intimidating, or belittling our fellow scouters.

 

Lisa'bob

 

Scout Law

TRUSTWORTHY

A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.

 

LOYAL

A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.

 

HELPFUL

A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.

 

FRIENDLY

A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.

 

COURTEOUS

A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.

 

KIND

A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.

 

OBEDIENT

A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.

 

CHEERFUL

A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.

 

THRIFTY

A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.

 

BRAVE

A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.

 

CLEAN

A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.

 

REVERENT

A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

 

[Bobanon]

I know exactly to what you are referencing and think nothing of it.

 

I go to a number of religious discussion forums and they are much nastier than anything I have seen here.

 

And lets face it, there are those whom you can disagree where there is still mutual respect, and there are those that you cannot. The latter I have found in my experience to be less knowledgable and hence more defensive in childish ways. Consider the source on those kind of forum denizens. I do.

 

 

[featherbear]

Thank you for posting that, Lisabob! As one reads text on a screen, it is easy to forget that there are people behind those words. All too often folks start treating one another in a forum in ways that the *never* would if they were face to face. It's one of the reasons I seldom post in forums. If it were possible for us to respect one another as though we knew one another in real life, or were having a conversation face-to-face, perhaps we wouldnt devolve to such antics that are hurtful to one another.

 

Again, thank you for the reminder.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It may be that some are not really Scouts or they don't know how they come across in the printed word. Generally, when it is pointed out there is complete denial. It is like a glass of water being spilled and nobody can stop it from hitting the floor. Moralizing doesn't appear to work. Warnings sometimes makes them back off. A thirty day suspension only brings them back with a slow burning vengeance and then there is the total cessation of their presence which sometimes brings them back with another pen name and/or location. It is like an addiction without a cure.

[Lisabob]

Maybe it is moralizing, in which case I will apologize because I am certainly not perfect myself. But I'm unmoved by Bobanon's argument that other forums are nastier than this. That doesn't excuse bad behavior here. We ought to be able to disagree - vehemently, even - without getting personal or nasty about it. For those who are scouters - and I do think that is the vast majority of us - those words we repeat so often ought to mean something when we interact with each other.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear]

LB,

Nothing wrong with moralizing that I can see. Point is that it doesn't seem to work. It is like potty training a two year old. It can't be done in one setting. I am not sure that anything will work because their aim seems to be way off. Just get out the Wipees and be prepared to clean it up.

FB

 

[Bobanon]

LisaBob getting along, even with in disagreement is the adult thing to do. Sadly that is beyond some folks.

 

 

[campcrafter]

 

I have to agree with both you Bobs

 

While our forum may not be as nasty as others - at times we could do better seeing as we are Scouters and should be more mindful of our words by our obligation to the Scout Law.

 

Too often I think I for one look at the ideal and then look at those persons around me and tend to follow the crowd rather than the ideal.

 

Something I'm trying to work on.

 

CC

[Beavah]

Not surprising, eh?

 

There's plenty of research on da limits of email and forum type communication. It follows a very consistent pattern like what you see here. Each person tends to take critique a bit more personally than was intended, and responds a bit more stridently in text than they would in real life. Repeat until yeh get to Hitler references.

 

Probably it's because in real life their sentiment would be carried by other non-text cues like tone and body language. In this medium, da only way to add emphasis is to make the words a bit more pointed.

 

Annoyin', but normal.

 

What is a bit off here is da way people get one question/complaint from a new poster and immediately launch off on judgments dat the troop must be wicked, the SM should be fired, they should find a new troop and such. Instant harsh to fellow volunteers who aren't present to defend themselves, eh? I'm not sure that's very helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, etc.

 

Maybe it's just the same thing; people tryin' to emphasize somethin' and comin' across too strong. But it strikes me as bein' worse than talkin' harsh to people who are present. Somethin' my grandmother used to say about talkin' behind people's backs I guess.

 

 

[acco40]

Most of the "talk radio" folks are more in the entertainment business and not that interested in a real debate of the issues (Limbaugh, Hannity, Frankin, O'Reilly). They smear, ridicule, and use hyperbole with the best of them. Perhaps many of our posters are emulating what they see and hear? After all, if it made good bucks and brought them fame it must be okay.

[OldGreyEagle]

I have commented in the past, I travel quite a bit and have had occasion to listen to Sports Talk Radio all over the country. The basic format of Sports Talk Radio is actually quite simple, unless the team of the moment, whether its Football, Baseball, Basketball etc is utterly dominating and/or destroying all opponents then the Radio Host is leading a withering attack on the stars, coach, and owner. When you think about it, its a great formula because at anyone time only one team can be in first place so odds are the teams in your market always provide fodder for critiques. Its called "knowing your Demographics", if the Yankees arent destroying the Sawks, then there is heck to pay on the radio. And when the Yankees win, well heck they should have scored twice as many runs. You appeal to what people want to hear, that your team is either the model of perfection or its not and lets spend all day discussing what needs to be done. A fans dream...

 

And oh yeah, are the sports radio hosts really true fans? Of course they are as long as the ratings hold...

 

Then there is Political Talk Radio. What a format, the hosts talks to a select demographic telling them what they want to hear. Its a great formula, you can pick on anything you want as long as you are saying what people want to hear. That the way they think is correct and good and wholesome and the only "real" way to think.

 

The business of Talk Radio is to make money, its not to diseminate ideas or spur intelligient debate and dialogue. Its more about monologues and how what I say is the way it is (or should be). A talk show host is a shill for the station, not a crusading agent of change.

[Eamonn]

I'm a little unsure what we are talking about?

I read the thread about "Shirt Loops".

I opted not to post in it.

Why?

One reason was that I didn't want to be branded a member of the non-existent "Uniform Police" Another was what I was going to post might be taken as being unkind.

So I let it go.

I was very unhappy with the way the thread on the Silver Buffalo went, but being as it was in the "Issues and Politics" area, I just stopped reading.

When someone posts something that is wrong, I'm not talking about an opinion but for example "Where can I take my Troop bungee jumping?" Some is going to post that bungee jumping is allowed by the BSA.

The person who posts that bungee jumping isn't OK is stating a fact.

This isn't being unkind.

To my mind they are performing a service.

However if they were to post:

"Eamonn don't be a big twit taking Scouts bungee jumping is an idiotic thing to do and you need to have your head examined."

They have crossed the line.

Then we have the person who will post that bungee jumping is fine if you don't do it as a Scouting unit and say how much their unit enjoys a good day of bungee jumping.

About a month or so back I was presenting the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Specific Training. As part of the introduction to the course I informed the participants that everything they need to know was covered in publications that the BSA has published and just about everything we were going to cover could be found in the Scoutmaster and Boy Scout Handbooks.

Most of the Scouter's in the forum have the materials at home to look up the answer to any Scouting related question.

Loops are covered in the Insignia Guide which is covered in the Rules and Bye-laws.

Bungee Jumps are in the G2SS.

We could I suppose just not discuss anything and just offer the reference to where the right answer might be found.

Eamonn.

 

[acco40]

And I for one would like to see those references on-line!

[ohadam]

Eamonn don't be a big twit taking Scouts to the handbook is an idiotic thing to do and you need to have your head examined.

 

[/irony]

[fgoodwin]

acco40 writes:Most of the "talk radio" folks are more in the entertainment business and not that interested in a real debate of the issues (Limbaugh, Hannity, Frankin, O'Reilly). They smear, ridicule, and use hyperbole with the best of them. Perhaps many of our posters are emulating what they see and hear? After all, if it made good bucks and brought them fame it must be okay.I almost never watch or listen to those guys. On the other hand, I listen to NPR every day driving to and from work.I find the liberal slant of NPR far more entertaining than the conservative commentators you listed. As a recent example, NPR couldn't wait to get Al Gore on its show so they could fawn all over him about hsi movie. A week ago, they had a full show between teh host and two of their in-house reporters, again singing the praises of Gore's movie.I'm not holding my breath waiting for an opposing view, but I guarantee you, if they do host an opposing view, they certainly won't toss that person the softballs that Terri Gross tossed Al Gore's way.