Freedoms under siege, retired general says

[fgoodwin]

Freedoms under siege, retired general says

 

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060529/NEWS01/605290348

http://tinyurl.com/n9oq4

 

Bullitt ceremony honors veterans

By Darla Carter

dcarter@courier-journal.com

The Courier-Journal

Monday, May 29, 2006

 

A ceremony to honor veterans became a call to action yesterday as a retired Air Force general urged the crowd not to let freedoms that he treasures slip away.

 

"There's two wars going on: There's a war in Iraq and there's a war right here at home, and we may have our eye on the wrong place," retired Maj. Gen. Carl D. Black told a crowd at Highland Memory Gardens in Bullitt County.

 

"Today, we're trying to remove God from everything," Black said. "We're trying to do away with the Pledge of Allegiance, remove prayer from schools, remove prayer from the Armed Forces. I say there's something wrong with where we are today, and we better wake up and start looking and see just exactly what it is."

 

Black, a Vietnam veteran, was the featured speaker at the annual Memorial Day weekend service sponsored by Chapter 454 of the Vietnam Veterans of America.

 

The ceremony, which is in its 14th year, honors veterans of all wars.

 

Myrtle Martin of Louisville attended the ceremony in memory of her son Clayborn W. Ashby Jr., who died in the Vietnam War in 1968, when he was 21.

 

She said Vietnam veterans have not always been given their due, so being able to have a ceremony like yesterday's meant a lot.

 

The service included a 21-gun salute and the laying of several wreaths in front of The Final LZ (landing zone), a memorial to Vietnam veterans.

 

If people want to maintain the ideas and ideals that veterans fought for and that continue to make this country great, Black said, "you and I and the younger generations coming on must get involved."

 

"Today we have come to pay respects to our fallen heroes and our fallen comrades -- but not that alone," Black said. " Today, we've come to receive the torch, to hold it high, to keep the faith and to pass it from generation to generation," as has been done since the nation was founded.

 

Only then can "Rest in peace" truly be uttered, Black said.

 

After the speech, Black said in an interview that many parents, schools and churches seem to have become apathetic about passing certain values on to young people.

 

"They just take for granted all of the freedoms that we have and think, 'Aw, they were just given to us.' "

 

Instead, they should be teaching youths "the basics," he said. "Teach them respect for the flag. Teach them respect for themselves. Tell them the history."

 

Lisa Goad, a Louisville parent who attended the ceremony, thought he had a point.

 

There are "a lot of kids nowadays that are not respectful, and I just think it's something important for me to give to my children," said Goad, whose sons Eric, 10, and Brandon, 13, were at the ceremony.

 

Brandon is a member of Boy Scout Troop 262, which took part in the event. He said he believes, "If you're going to live in this country, you need to learn what it (the flag) stands for and respect that."

 

Matt Davis, who is 14 and a fellow Boy Scout from Louisville, said that attending the event and teaching younger children to have reverence for the flag "shows respect to all the veterans that have passed away."

 

Reporter Darla Carter can be reached at (502) 582-7068.

[NJCubScouter]

So this former AF general thinks there is a war going on "at home." It is not the first time I have heard that, back in 1992 Patrick Buchanan talked about the "culture war." But I think we all need to think about this. If there is a war going on, which side are we on, and what are we fighting over? And what do we mean by "war," and what tactics are permitted in this "war"?

 

To illustrate what I mean, this person uses as one of his examples, the issue of school prayer. I happen to believe that the Constitution forbids organized prayer in public schools, and that even if it didn't, public schools are no place for organized prayer. There are others, including in this forum, who disagree. That's ok, I don't want to get into yet another debate over it, we can all agree to disagree as long as we all follow the law. But this retired general says we are at "war" over this issue. Are other members of this forum really at "war" with me? Can't we just discuss and debate issues without being at "war"?

[Bobanon]

Ahhhh the fallacy of removing God......

 

One would think a Major General would know more of American History than what he appears to know. That is a real shame, unless of course he was spouting that nonsense to work the crowd up.

 

It was not the intent of the Founding Fathers to set the United States as a religious, (Christian), nation. Many of the Founding Fathers were Deist. Namely Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington. And so too was the Father of the American Revolution, Thomas Paine. There were many other Deist during the time. Thomas Jefferson envisioned the "U.S. to be a Unitarian nation" within two generations", and said so in a letter to John Adams.

 

Under God was not even in the original Pledge, buit was added in the 1950's as a way to combat "them gawdless commumist". Most people don't even know that Ralph Belamy the writer of the Pledge was a Socialist and a defrocked Baptist minister. He was defrocked because of his socialism.

 

For anyone to make claims that the U.S. is a religious nation of any bent is false, and a lie. It was founded on the ideals of secularism and the natural rights of man.

[NJCubScouter]

Just to add something to what I wrote above: This person is quoted as saying our "freedoms" are "under seige" and that we are at "war," but the ONLY examples he gives involve, in one way or another, government-sponsored religious exercises. Now, I personally do not care whether the Pledge of Allegiance includes "under God" or not. Yes, it is at least formally a religious statement, but it has been so drained of religious meaning that I don't think it really hurts anybody. (Or helps anybody. Ironically, that is the only basis on which the Supreme Court would allow it to remain, if the reference to "God" has become so routine and meaningless that it has lost all religious significance.) As far as removing prayer from the Armed Forces, I don't know anything about that. Any of our military people here, is there really an effort being made to stop military people from praying? I tend to doubt that's the case. I know some people got upset in the past because the military accommodated a very WIDE range of religious observance, including Wicca, but that's hardly the same things are "removing prayer." (Actually it's the opposite.)

 

So what are these freedoms that are under siege? If you want to talk about freedoms being threatened, we can have a discussion about domestic spying, "data mining" in telephone records, and things like that, but I don't think that's what this general is referring to.

[GernBlansten]

There is an effort to remove prostylizing from the US Air Force Academy. Seems that the culture there was heavily slanted towards evangelical Christianity and those not of that persuasion were pressured by the followers of the leaders of that institution to become Christian soldiers. The football team even had a large banner displayed that said "Team Jesus". Not that there's anything wrong with that if it were Bob Jones University or Liberty University. But this is a military academy and should represent the US Government not a particular religious sect.

 

Perhaps that is what the good General was referring to.

[Bobanon]

I stopped saying "one nation under god" years ago. I don't necessarily find it offensive per se. BI quit because I don't believe God chooses sides based upon nationality or national origin, I don't believe God thinks one way or another about us actually. If he did, he would love all equally, and maybe a little more for the poor, suffering and destitute.

[Fuzzy Bear]

The "war" is all about the overwhelming desire to cram religion down the throats of school children and any other person that will stand still long enough to allow it. It has become a religious jihad for those that believe in an impotent God and a full political agenda against any that won't do as they are told. It is a war against thought and the right of free speech. It is a fear that someone will actually have a religion or no religion other than the one prescribed. It is a war against freedom itself.

 

This last year I spoke with (not to) more than 500 students. By the way, the students I get are generally considered the least of the bunch. The vast majority were respectful to adults, other students and to their country. I have found this same truth year after year. This has been accomplished without school forced prayer. The Armed Forces try their hardest to recruit these same kids. These kids have values, so I am unsure what the Maj. General was speaking about. FB

 

[SSScout]

When my daughter and son were much younger and smaller, it was not unusual for them to come up and say "Gimme a cookie!" ( or toy/drink/icecream/or ...). As an attentive parent, I certainly want my children to have what they need, but maybe not everything they want. Darling, intelligent urchins that they were, they soon learned that daddy didn't react well to demands, but reasoned requests, politely made often got the item requested. So the previous DEMAND ("GIMME MY COOKIE NOW!) became "Daddy? could I have some cookies and milk ,please? I've got my chores done!" The skills of diplomacy, negotiation and courtesy became more apparent as they got older and matured.

So, when I see the oft posted sign/bumper sticker/flag demanding that "GOD BLESS AMERICA" I find I am not surprised when of late it appears that such blessing has perhaps not been happening so much as before.

Perhaps if we were to politely make our request, we might see more of such.

"Please, God, would you consider blessing America? We promise to do more of those chores we missed of late!"

 

[Eagledad]

>>I don't believe God thinks one way or another about us actually. If he did, he would love all equally, and maybe a little more for the poor, suffering and destitute.

[Trevorum]

The way people think about their god and the way they think about their country are often all wrapped up together. It used to make a kind of sense, centuries ago, when each nation state had their own language and own religion and used military power to protect their economy and way of life. Of course it doesn't make sense any more, but there you have it.

[Eagledad]

You may have been right back when the leader of a state was also given the title of god. But God today is more a reflection of moral concious, and at the state level the assumed ideals the county represents to its people.

 

However my question was toward people thinking for God. Are we putting ourselves above God, or are we really showing our disapointment in man, but we just don't know who to blame.

 

Barry

[acco40]

Another bunch of retired generals have some salty comments for Bush II and Rumsfeld. Retired generals, just like you and me, are entitled to their opinions.

 

Most of our service men and women understand such phrases as "freedom is not free" and "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." However, those who have seen combat truly know the hell on Earth that war creates and are none to gung-ho on continuing that cycle unless absolutely necessary.

 

Now I wholeheartedly agree with the general about teaching our youth history, respect especially of themselves) but if anything, I think we may need a "war on apathy" with the majority of our youth today. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Beavah]

Nah, modern youth aren't apathetic.

 

They just choose not to engage in the foolishness that their parents for some ungodly reason think is important. Non-response is a more mature, understanding, and kind way to deal with adult foolishness than rebellion, eh?

 

I find young people today to be much more service-oriented and respectful than those of a generation or two ago. They certainly beat past generations hands-down in time spent in community service.

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Every semester I teach American Gov't to a large number of college freshmen, many from major urban areas in the midwest where the economy is not too hot. I find that they are not apathetic. They often care deeply about the major issues of the day. In particular they have strongly held views on our military policy and jobs/poverty-related issues. Perhaps not surprisingly, those who are often the first to be written off by society at large - young men and women from inner cities - have the strongest views, based on their life experiences.

 

And these days, nearly all of my students know someone who is on active duty in the military. Many have, themselves, served overseas and are now trying to re-integrate into civilian life as students. We've had other students get called up for active duty mid-semester. It adds a certain reality to discussion when we are talking about foreign policy and several people in the room have served to implement that policy on the ground. Tends to cut to the chase pretty quickly.

 

They're not apathetic. They ARE often frustrated with how difficult it is to get their voices heard and to effect change. Many of them start out feeling pretty alienated from our system of gov't. But that's not apathy. I think many people misunderstand this about "today's youth."

 

Lisa'bob