Group Protests Boy Scouts Exclusionary Policies

[evmori]

Bobanon,

 

Neither of your three reasons is valid.

 

SaintCad,

 

I'm done! Maybe you should go back to your Poker discussion & gaming forums. You probably know more about them than you do about this topic.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"The funny thing is I can see the BSA accepting a Troop or Pack who's Charter Organization is a white supremest church."

 

No way. Not a chance. Not for one second would it even be considered. It's hard to believe that anyone who was involved with BSA could possibly believe that the organization would choose to destroy itself. Even if you believe that BSA makes its decisions entirely cynically, it wouldn't do this--it would drive other COs away in droves. I think most in BSA would also think that it would be unethical and against the values of BSA to accept such a church as a CO--and the fact that BSA is "non-sectarian" wouldn't change that.

[funscout]

To my fellow Judeo-Christians:

 

Thanks for trying, but I don't think our words alone will change anyone's mind on this forum. All we can do is pray the prayer that never fails:

 

Thy will be done.

 

Amen

[DanKroh]

Hunt,

 

And yet, the BSA has allowed COs to be churches that don't believe in any god (Scientology) and that don't allow women to hold leadership positions (LDS). But has banned churches that would allow gays and atheists to join (UU). And it has only been since 1974 that LDS troops have officially discontinued the practice of denying leadership positions to black scouts.

 

But I guess it's all about who is willing to pay the big bucks.

[SaintCad]

"SaintCad,

I'm done! Maybe you should go back to your Poker discussion & gaming forums. You probably know more about them than you do about this topic."

 

After 10 pages of this thread and this is the best you can do?!

I've shown that I have more than a Sunday School knowledge of the Bible and you resort to an Ad Hominum attack? But then, I guess your complete lack of an answer to my last post is answer enough.

 

 

And I forgive you for your insult.

[Bobanon]

Okay Ed I am not a preacher or sunday school teacher who will feed you information like pablum. I supplied you with titles, now its up to you.

 

Hunt I believe that the BSA would accept the charter of a new unit where the CO was a white supremist church as quickly as they would one from a Baptist Church. Why, its plain and simple......money.

[evmori]

SaintCad,

 

Last time!

 

What part of "different account of the same event" don't you understand? The explanations I gave you are widely accepted by others who know and study the Bible. And actually, the knowledge you have shown is more than Sunday School knowledge. It's right up there with someone who knows how to surf the web & find stuff. There is a total lack of understanding.

 

And I didn't ask to be forgiven nor do I expect to be.

 

Now, I am done.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SaintCad]

"What part of "different account of the same event" don't you understand? The explanations I gave you are widely accepted by others who know and study the Bible."

 

I understand completely. What you fail to understand is that you have INTERPRETED the Bible. In other words, when Mark said there was a young man in the tomb, you've INTERPRETED that to mean that he is referring to the spokesman. When Acts said that Judas "fell headlong" you've INTERPRETED that to mean after he hanged himself. The question was: what makes YOUR INTERPRETATIONS more valid than other interpretations backed up by scholarly research?

 

 

"And I didn't ask to be forgiven nor do I expect to be."

But I forgive your insults anyways.

 

[evmori]

WOW! Hard to believe! I'm dumbfounded! I guess, SaintCad, there is no way to make you understand. What I posted is backed by others. Where is your back-up research?

 

Thanks for the forgiveness but I haven't posted any insults.

 

Bobanon,

Thanks for supplying the titles, but I don't read much fiction.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Hunt]

"Hunt I believe that the BSA would accept the charter of a new unit where the CO was a white supremist church as quickly as they would one from a Baptist Church. Why, its plain and simple......money."

 

You can't be serious. Even if BSA only cared about money, such a decision would cost the organization millions of dollars.

 

DanKroh writes: "And yet, the BSA has allowed COs to be churches that don't believe in any god (Scientology) and that don't allow women to hold leadership positions (LDS). But has banned churches that would allow gays and atheists to join (UU). And it has only been since 1974 that LDS troops have officially discontinued the practice of denying leadership positions to black scouts."

 

I don't think BSA banned UU churches from being COs, did it? It did refuse to accept their religious emblem program. Also, I think 1974 is pretty long ago in terms of the consensus view of racial discrimination. But I will agree that there is line-drawing here that is not entirely clear--why is it OK with BSA for some COs to decide that women shouldn't be leaders, but not OK for other COs to decide that gays can be leaders? That just takes us back to the murky question of whether BSA's values on these subjects are based on some underlying principles or rather on the consensus of the most powerful COs. But however you slice it, it should be obvious to anybody which side of the line a white suprematist CO would be.

[SaintCad]

"WOW! Hard to believe! I'm dumbfounded! I guess, SaintCad, there is no way to make you understand. What I posted is backed by others. Where is your back-up research?"

 

"Bobanon,

Thanks for supplying the titles, but I don't read much fiction."

 

Ummmm . . . the same place as yours I guess since you havn't posted any backup research either. I suspect that even if I did post the research that scholars have done, you would belittle them like you did with Bobanon since people with M.Div's and D.Min's must clearly be wrong if they disagree with you.

 

But I did have to study the Bible in-depth for 4 years in a private high-school and when I minored in Philosophy (Comparative Religions). I also attended a series of lectures that my church sponsored. The lectures were given by a professor of theology. What is your background in Biblical Studies?

 

 

"Thanks for the forgiveness but I haven't posted any insults."

Really?! That crack about poker forums and not knowing the Bible was not meant to be insulting?

 

 

[SaintCad]

"But I will agree that there is line-drawing here that is not entirely clear--why is it OK with BSA for some COs to decide that women shouldn't be leaders, but not OK for other COs to decide that gays can be leaders? That just takes us back to the murky question of whether BSA's values on these subjects are based on some underlying principles or rather on the consensus of the most powerful COs."

 

 

What would happen if an OC that does not believe in female leadership (like some Christian Churches) wanted to prevent a woman from being a cubmaster or denmaster? Would BSA allow it? Is it a direct violation of BSA policy?

[DanKroh]

SaintCad says: "What would happen if an OC that does not believe in female leadership (like some Christian Churches) wanted to prevent a woman from being a cubmaster or denmaster? Would BSA allow it? Is it a direct violation of BSA policy??

 

It already happens, my friend. Women are not allowed to hold any position of leadership in scouting programs sponsored by LDS churches.

 

Hunt, UU churches are not allowed to sponsor scouting unit per BSA national council, because the UUs said that they would not enforce the discriminatory membership policies within any units that they sponsored. About the same time (the timeline is a little murky on the BSA side, so I'm not sure exactly which came first), the UU General Assembly passed a resolution not to support or sponsor scouting units until the policies were changed. But even if an individual UU church wanted to sponsor a unit, the BSA would not allow it.

[Hunt]

"Hunt, UU churches are not allowed to sponsor scouting unit per BSA national council, because the UUs said that they would not enforce the discriminatory membership policies within any units that they sponsored."

 

That's not discrimination against UU, exactly--UU made it clear it wouldn't agree to the terms of the charter. BSA didn't need to "ban" UU churches, if none of the churches will agree to the charter. Assuming BSA was not willing to change its membership requirements, its hands were tied.

[ohadam]

Thanks for the info, bob--the websites and titles. I'm pretty well educated in the area, but am always looking for new stuff. And I've found a UU church nearby and am going to check it out.

 

I'm not so concerned about my own spirituality conflicting with BSA rules--I just don't think it's fair or sensible to declare that people with differnt views cannot be "the best kind of" citizens.

 

Adam