Group Protests Boy Scouts Exclusionary Policies

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

BrentAllen writes:

9 Councils proposed the change, and you think that is a large number? 9 Councils?? Out of more than 300? That is 3%! Sorry, no I do not think that is a large number!

 

Compare the populations - and you can't assume that the remainder of councils all agree with the status quo.

 

Come on, Merlyn - you can do better than that. Why not ask me if it was a white, men's nation? Don't waste your time - I have better things to do than argue with someone who is only interested in tearing down the BSA.

 

I figured you'd refuse to answer my question. People who say this is a "Christian" nation say it for the same reasons other people say this is a "white" nation.

[evmori]

And Ed this is Genesis 1:27 God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Maybe you don't know the bible like you claim. You certainly don't know the history of your religion, but then you shouldn't feel bad. I have found very few fundamentalist who do.

 

Thank, Bobanon. I am familiar with the verse. Apparently you aren't.

 

Now go to Genesis 2:18-23. Same story but with more details. Remember, these are two versions of the same story.

 

I am not a fundamentalist nor do I play one on TV.

 

Just knowing where the the verses are in the Bible doesn't mean you understand them. One has to study. Sorta like school! Ya study ya learn! Ya don't study, ya have to do extra credit to get that D to a C!

 

And the Bible isn't infallible because I believe it is. It is because it is God's word.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bobanon]

Ed extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You can "know" in your heart until the cows come home that God gave man the bible, but that doesn't make it true. There are several text that make the claim that it is the gift of god to man. Which one is the real book of God? I say none for God's business isn't the Book of The Month Club.

[evmori]

Ed extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

And your evidence that the Bible isn't infallible, Bobanon, is what?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bobanon]

Ed you need to come to your own conclusions. It is not my place to undermine what you believe. With that said, if you want to look into the issue further you'll need to spend some time and effort reading. I suggest:

 

"The Fallible Gospels" by Graham Lawrence. This shows where many of tales of the bible originated. An example is the already mention 10 Commandments being taken from a Zorastorian legend of their 15 Commandments.

 

"The End of Faith" by Sam Harris

 

"Stealing Jesus" by Bruce Bawer (this really isn't a work disproving religion, but gives a consise history of fundmenatalist Christianity and is a great read).

 

"Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism" by Susan Jacoby. A very good read.

 

There is a lot of information out there. You need to do the research on your own for it to be valid Ed. I could tell you down to the jot and tittle, but you would deny it. If you do your own research it gives it more value and credibility to your own self.

 

 

[DanKroh]

Ah yes, Ed's "I'm not going to provide evidence to prove something, but you should provide evidence to disprove it" modus operandi.

 

Here's one for you, Ed. I believe that the universe was spat out of the birth canal of the Great Goddess during Her orgasm. I'm not going to provide any proof of it, because the fact that I believe it is good enough for me.

 

But if you disagree with that belief, I'd like you to provide evidence to disprove it.

 

Ed, matters of faith and personal belief can be neither PROVEN nor DISPROVEN. That's why they are based on FAITH.

 

But if you want to assert that your personal belief is hard, carved-in-stone fact, then you need to be ready to back it up with tangible proof. Otherwise, accept that it is only your personal belief (which may be shared by others), and not a statement of absolute truth.

[SaintCad]

Ed, I see you didn't answer my challenge.

In the story of the women visiting the empty tomb in the Gospels, how many people/angels are in the tomb? How do you explain this contradiction?

 

Second, the Qu'ran is also the word of God as given to Mohammed, so should we also follow those precepts?

 

Third, (and in this thread more importantly), do you believe that the Bible should be used to determine BSA policy at a national level?

[Hunt]

"...do you believe that the Bible should be used to determine BSA policy at a national level?

 

I think it's fair to turn this question around. If you think that BSA should base its ethical policies on the doctrine of one religion, or even of a majority of religious, what should it base them on? And if you want to leave that to the CO, how should BSA decide which COs are ethically OK? What would be the proper mechanism or thought-process for BSA to go through if, say, a white supremacist church wanted to be a CO and have a white-only unit? It seems to me that you're either left relying on a consensus of BSA decisionmakers, or you have to refer to some external source of ethics. I find it difficult to think of any truly non-sectarian way of doing this other than taking a vote.

[evmori]

Ed, I see you didn't answer my challenge.

In the story of the women visiting the empty tomb in the Gospels, how many people/angels are in the tomb? How do you explain this contradiction?

 

No contradiction. Four accounts of the same story.

 

Second, the Qu'ran is also the word of God as given to Mohammed, so should we also follow those precepts?

 

I really don't know much about this book so I won't comment.

 

Third, (and in this thread more importantly), do you believe that the Bible should be used to determine BSA policy at a national level?

 

Used to determine policy? Don't know if the Bible has been used this way. I know many have used it to defend certain policies. But to answer your question, no.

 

Bobanon,

 

Amuse me. I'm from Missouri. Show me!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

[Bobanon]

The funny thing is I can see the BSA accepting a Troop or Pack who's Charter Organization is a white supremest church.

 

Ed, you are going to have to make the journey yourself. I did, and nobody held me by the hand, or showed me the way. Doing the research on your on makes it more valid and more believable to yourself. I could tell you one item after another yet you wouldn't believe simply because you didn't sweat to find the truth on your on.

 

I will relent and give you an easy source though. Obtain a copy of Dr. Israel Finklestein and Neil Silberman's book "The Bible Unearthed". Finklestein is director of the Nadler INstitute of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University and Silberman is director of historical presentation at the Ename Center for Public Archaeology and Heritage Preservation in Belgium. Both are contributing Editors to Archaeology magazine.

[SaintCad]

>>Ed, I see you didn't answer my challenge.

In the story of the women visiting the empty tomb in the Gospels, how many people/angels are in the tomb? How do you explain this contradiction?

 

>No contradiction. Four accounts of the same story.

 

No contradiction?! Matthew and Mark claim it was one person (or angel) while Luke and John state there were two peple (or angels). So Ed, how many were in the tomb: one, two, or some other number?

 

Oh, while you're answering that, please tell me how Judas Iscariot died. Did he commit suicide by hanging (Matthew) or did he fall down and his guts fell out (Acts)?

[OldGreyEagle]

I may have missed this, but bobanon, what is your connection to scouting?

[evmori]

Bobanon,

So you have no proof. Thought so.

 

SaintCad,

Many times, only the spokesman is noted & his accompanying figure us not mentioned. No contradictions, different accounts of the same story.

 

Judas Iscariot hung himself and when he was either cut down or fell from where he hung himself, his guts fell out.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Bobanon]

OldGreyEagle,

 

I have been everything from a Den Leader to a Crew Advisor, Commisioner, yada, yada yada. Right now I am between jobs (so to speak), and not sure if I want to continue with Scouting. I am pretty well burned out. And as you can tell from my post I do have some differing opinions with mainstream Scouting. That goes double down here in the Bible Belt.

 

Ed again I will not do the leg work for you. I can post one instance after another but you will not believe me. You have to do it on your own. Your unwillingness is from one of three reasons: is it that you are too busy to do the work yourself, or are you too scared of what you might find, or are you just too lazy?

[SaintCad]

Ed, so it's clear that you have an explaination that covers everything. I suppose that if I point out hat in Mark the Man/Angel is already in the open tomb when Mary an Salome arrive but in Matthew they see the angel decend and mve the stone - you'll have some ready explanation of why they are not contradictory.

 

But that doesn't matter because you have already proven my point. You INTERPRET the Bible to make it consistant for you, so that when the Bible says that Judas gave back his 30 pieces of silver and the money eventually was used by the priests to buy land yet Judas apparently used that silver to buy his own plot of land - you will interpret those stories to mean that .

 

Now I come along and I interpret the Bible based on language usage in the original tongue (particularly Hebrew and Greek) which indicate that it is homosexuality in the context if Gentile (in the OT) or pagan (in the NT) fertility cults you'll say I'm wrong. If I interpret 2 Sam 1:26 as recognizing a homosexual relation between David and Jonathan due to the usage of "love" in a context recognizable to any Hebrew as meaning "sexual love", they you'll say I'm wrong.

 

So why are your interpretations of the Bible the correct ones and others who disagree with you are interpreting incorrectly? If you say that you are NOT interpreting, then that is incorrect - you are interpreting since you are saying something different than the literal translation (there wasn't one man in the tomb but two with one as a leader).

 

As for the Qu'ran, it claims to be the word of God but you haven't read it. Do you believe that it is not the word of God? If so, then how can you be so sure the Bible (both OT and NT) is the true word of God but the Qu'ran is not?