Wiccan Scout Kicked Out of Troop

[campcrafter]

funscout wrote:

but if they believe in a higher authority, then that should be okay with BSA.

Not neccessarily so. BSA's Declaration of Religious Principle states:

The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary...

So it seems just any ol' higher power won't do.

Appears that some folk are quick on the trigger when they should stop and consider the child they are aiming at.

pax,

CC

[Merlyn_LeRoy]

fgoodwin writes:

Training and sensitivity to diversity are so very important in this area that my heart just goes out to these poor kids and their family; their situation was bungled so badly by the ham-handed actions of the Troop Committee that I'm at a total loss to understand it.

 

Rather hollow words from you, Fred; you didn't seem at all concerned about excluding atheists from your Cub Scout Pack, even when it was chartered by a public school.

[GernBlansten]

I'm very concerned. I am not a wiccan. Nor am I a Christian. I believe in a higher being, one that created our universe, but I don't believe that being has any hand in my day to day life nor do I believe in the power of prayer. Should I and my son be expelled from BSA?

 

Until this thread, I thought we met the religious requirements, but I have doubts now. My troop is also chartered by a UMC church. They have never asked my church or religion. Yet.

[campcrafter]

GernBlasten,

 

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD NOT BE EXPELLED FROM BSA.

 

Really do not think you should have much to be conserned with since your unit and CO seems to care more about what good you have to offer than whether or not you pass some fundamentalist, elitist requirement.

 

I am sure that before you there were many who shared similar beliefs for many years in Scouting. But not until the rise of the fundamentalist movement did anyone care.

 

I think to that the internet while providing a forum such as this where we can share our good ideas, and offer each other support has also allowed others to promote the fundamentalist agenda and cause good people like yourself much grief.

 

Awaiting the wrath.

ron

 

p.s. To be fair I also think that prior to the 70s & 80s (before the rise of the New Age movement) most folks in this country just assumed everyone else was Christian (as most probaly considered themselves - except for those areas with Jewish or Asian communities - there certainly were few if any Muslim communities here in the 1950's - Detroit maybe. (Yes I am talking from possibly ignorant Texas/Midwest point of view.))

 

pacis amicitia,

cc

(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

[GernBlansten]

My concern, and I've expressed it in other threads is that BSA sets a basic set of ground rules regarding membership, but COs can augment those rules with their own (example, LDS units). In this case, it would have been within BSA guidelines to allow this expulsion, since the CO defines the membership. I think the COs have too much leeway in defining their program and membership. It should be set at national and lived up to by every CO that charters with them. No deviation.

 

 

[Hunt]

The good news in this story:

Although the Methodist Church could restrict membership in chartered units to Christians, it doesn't. That's good.

Although BSA could exclude members of non-traditional religions, it doesn't. That's good.

When a number of ill-informed local leaders messed up, higher authorities in both the church and BSA stepped in to make the policies clear, and to try to straighten out the problem. That's good.

The pastor of the church called the excluded family and apologized, and then spoke to the scouts and their parents to explain that the boys shouldn't have been excluded. That's good, too.

Unfortunately, it appears that some of the parents in the troop were unable to learn from the experience, and continued to object--apparently leading to the Wiccan boys leaving the troop. That's bad.

Sadly, this shows that even when the system ultimately works as it is supposed to, you can't always repair the damage that has been done.

[campcrafter]

GB

 

This is one of those areas I am standing on sand.

 

On the one hand - the CO franchises the program for their institution and so should be able to set their own standards within guidelines. For most churches I would think Scouting would be part of the youth ministry and would therefore attract mostly people from their own congregation, be part of the larger parish community.

 

LDS seems to be a unique situation in that they have franchised a different progam than everyone else. But they have paid the $$$ and gained the power to do so.

 

On the other hand yes it should be a program open to EVERYONE. I think most units are like that. The UMC has become a rather liberal denomination and I would think unless your CO is extremely conservative you would not have any problem.

 

For churches rather than making it a closed system it seems a good opportunity to witness to those who don't belong to the church. I am not talking proselytizing. I am saying witnessing by example through the program. "Oh they allow non-members to be scouts, hey this is fun, they do good work, what else do they have to offer."

 

Sadly this isn't the usual scenario.

 

Maybe a third franchise is needed that truly is secular? Hey what a novel idea. Maybe some one will start something

 

cc

 

 

[fgoodwin]

campcrafter, there are many "secular" sponsors of Scouting. PTAs, PTOs, Lions Clubs, VFW posts, Rotary Clubs, etc.

 

For a list, see:

 

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-507.html

[campcrafter]

Secular yes but not a TRULY SECULAR program.

 

Secular sponsors and their leaders are still bound by the DRP.

 

Which only takes us back to Merlin and the ACLU.

 

 

CC

[fgoodwin]

Are you suggesting that BSA remove "God" from the Scout Oath, and "reverent" from the Scout Law?

 

I would not support that.

[GernBlansten]

The promise of a secular CO would be that they really would have no grounds to expel membership due to the wrong religion and follow the BSA program as national has laid it out. Our CO is UMC and I agree they are very liberal with allowing membership from all faiths. In fact, very few of our members belong to the congregation and it is NOT a youth group for their church. The diversity of our faiths I feel makes us stronger and more interesting.

 

However, its very disturbing that a CO could expel due to belonging to the wrong church or worshiping the wrong God(s). Seems to me that BSA is doing a disservice to the membership by not requiring COs respect all religions equally.

[fgoodwin]

GB (and others): you're all focusing on the expulsion by teh Troop Committee but overlooking the reinstatement by the pastor and church.

 

Once they realized they made a mistake (and we all agree the TC acted improperly), they tried to correct it.

 

So, the adults on the TC could stand to be better trained in membership policy, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the CO didn't kick out the boys -- it was the TC. In fact, the CO over-rode the TC decision and invited the boys back.

 

This is an example of incompetence by some adults on the TC, this is not an example of religious discrimination by BSA (as a national organization) nor the Methodist Church.

[campcrafter]

Not at all Fred.

 

I AM suggesting that

 

1) a new non-religious Scouting program be formed without being harrassed by the BSA

 

OR

 

2) As they have done for the LDS - Allow perons to use a different version of BSA program but this time without the DRP. That would be a win-win-win situation.

 

Non-believers get the program

BSA gets money

Citizens do not have to pay for court cases

 

cc(This message has been edited by campcrafter)

[GernBlansten]

I understand the difference in this case where the TC acted and the CO corrected. However, if the CO had not been UMC and supported the TC, it could have been much different. Say the CO were LDS or Southern Baptist. Would the BSA come to the rescue of a couple of Wiccans? BSA allows the CO do just this type of discrimination (even though they meet BSA membership requirements) and I don't think that is right.

 

The potential of this type of situation becoming a real problem in the future exists.

 

Consider this hypothetical situation...a fundamentalist CO hardens their position on membership and expels all members who are not Christians. Those members appeal to the BSA and are told tuff luck, its the COs right. They then sue the CO and BSA for equal access since they meet BSA requirements.

[campcrafter]

Fred wrote:

GB (and others): you're all focusing on the expulsion by teh Troop Committee but overlooking the reinstatement by the pastor and church. Once they realized they made a mistake (and we all agree the TC acted improperly), they tried to correct it.

True and we can only hope others learn form this but they won't. WHY? Because other than a few back page articles used to fill space in a few newspapapers and a few forums, the people who need to learn the lesson will never hear about it.

It won't appear in Scouting magazine as it should with an article about how the situation should be handled to prevent such bungling elsewhere in the future to the further detriment of the program, but the magazine will just run its usual fluff.

And while they tried to correct the problem - alas, they couldn't, the damage had been done.

CC