Sometimes No Hazing means no hazing

[Beavah]

If Gern's theory holds any water, whose sandbox rules applied, the BSA's or the CO's?

 

The BSA stopped deliverin' sand. Since that pack and troop are apparently the only scouting game in town, they could just keep right on with business as usual, decidin' on a uniform, running trips and handing out their own parallel awards. In a few years, a DE anxious about "numbers" would re-issue a charter. Who knows, that may be how it plays. Or it may be dat the CO's make some leadership changes to the council and re-issue the charter. Or....

 

Lucky for the BSA that the CO was the ELCA and not the Catholics or Methodists, eh? That Pennsylvania council otherwise might have been left with a lot of sand.

 

I'm still curious about what the real story is.

[GernBlansten]

I didn't notice the church was ELCA. If it was Missouri Synod, well, I just don't want to think about that! ;-)

[SemperParatus]

Five years ago, our troop did summercamp week at Hawk Mountain Scout Reservation.

 

The First Aid MB Counselor (a big kid) carried around a big stick that he referred to as his 'persuasion stick' with the inferred threat that its presence would ensure that all participants would be attentive and answer his questions.

 

The Camp Director was kind enough to 'reassign' him to different duties by Tuesday.

 

I wonder if its the same stick?

[OldGreyEagle]

the plot thickens, or at least continues

 

http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=16588308&BRD=2626&PAG=461&dept_id=536271&rfi=8

 

Troop meets for last time

BY LESLIE RICHARDSON CORRESPONDENT 05/05/2006

 

TAMAQUA It was a Boy Scout meeting just like any other held at Zion Evangelical Church for the past 46 years.

 

But Thursday evening will go down in history as the last time Troop 776 will ever meet.

 

The Scout troop headed by state Rep. David G. Argall, R-124, was ordered by the Reading-based Hawk Mountain Council to halt all activities as of Thursday, with both the Boy Scout and Cub Scout troops ceasing to exist by May 31, due to an alleged hazing incident involving some members.

 

Inside the safe haven of the building that has served them well, a group of boys and leaders held a board of review for future Eagle Scouts. Younger boys played a game and the older Scouts practiced for the upcoming Eagle Scout ceremony the last one they will attend as members of Troop 776.

 

A group of parents sat at tables in the back of the room, reminiscing about past activities, encouraging the boys and still reeling from the shock of the announcement they heard on April 21.

 

The issue began with a June 2004 incident at the Hawk Mountain Camp, Summit Station, when some Scouts were allegedly struck in the leg with an 8- to 12-inch stick.

 

Argall said the two Scout leaders at the camp at the time of the incident were forbidden by the council to take part in Scout activities.

 

Parents said the final straw seemed to come when the two leaders were invited to attend and participate in two Eagle Scout Courts of Honor ceremonies recognizing the Scouts highest achievement after being banned from any further group functions.

 

All of us mothers have come here every week since our Boy Scouts have been in first grade, said Kathy A. Murphy, whose son, Shane, is an Eagle Scout. We are not just a troop. We are a family.

 

This is not fair to the boys, Norma J. Secara said.

 

They all enjoy being together and being Scouts, agreed Mary E. Gurcsik. This is special to all of them, but especially to the guys that arent involved in other things, she said.

 

Gurcsik has three sons who are all Eagle Scouts.

 

Most of the boys would not comment on the incident, but Alex J. Jones was at the camp when the alleged hazing took place.

 

I was at the camp and I think it was just horseplay, he said. It was no game or ritual. It was just kids clowning around.

 

Jones would not say who or how many Scouts were involved in the incident.

 

Hazing to me is a matter of opinion, said Assistant Scout Master Daniel Woodring. Yes, there was a problem, yes, we needed to address it. But did we need to lose the whole troop over this?

 

When asked if the boys involved in the episode could have been dismissed and thus avoid the disbandment of the entire troop, Woodring said: I dont know if the boys could have been dismissed, but if we removed them, what would they learn? There are other ways to teach them.

 

Most of the boys, including Jones, were upset when they heard about the reprimand. They are now looking toward the future.

 

At first it meant a lot (to hear that the troop was being disbanded), because we had the troop for so long, said A.J. Argall, 17, Argalls son. The church has been great to us; but it is really about the kids, and as long as we get to stay together we can play it through.

 

Argall said another church could be granted a charter to start a new troop the boys can join.

 

He also said some of the older boys may have the option of forming a Venture Crew, a group that provides an opportunity to acquire and advance leadership skills.

 

Parents, however, are divided about the incident and the loss of the charter. Many feel the decision was an overreaction, considering this was a first violation.

 

It was one and done, Woodring said. I dont think there is an appeal process.

 

According to Joseph Vlcek, 82, who joined the troop committee in 1958, he can recall about 67 Eagle Scouts coming from Troop 776.

 

If we werent any good, how come we have all those Eagle Scouts? Vlcek asked. We have lawyers, heart surgeons, policemen, heads of the fire department and people working for the CIA that have come from this troop. I dont think the entire troop should be punished after all of these years of doing such good work and all that we have taught these boys.

 

Woodring said the troop will participate in frisbee games next week and hold three Eagle Ceremonies on May 18 at Zion Lutheran Church.

 

I would like to see the Boy Scouts stay alive in the Tamaqua Area, Woodring said. I have been involved in this troop since the 1980s, and I have been fortunate to see so many boys grow up.

 

Some of the troop officials say they arent even sure what the charges against them are.

 

All the kids going for their Eagle are going to have to go somewhere else to complete it. I think that is just silly, said Daniel Geissinger, a member of the committee and a past Scout master who served the troop for 17 years.

 

I think it is a raw deal. It stems back to the fact that they have been on top of us for years. For this to come up and for them to take our charter away is unbelievable, and I am still not sure what they are charging us with. There will be about 60 boys thrown out of scouting because of this, Geissinger said.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

And this

 

http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=16575221&BRD=2626&PAG=461&dept_id=536271&rfi=8

 

Scout troop should not be disbanded

05/03/2006

 

Volunteering to take a blow across the legs from a stick named "Roy" isn't the worst thing in the world that can happen to a young man.

 

 

It's a little stupid - although the Marines do things like this. It should not be condoned by those in authority and, when such behavior is discovered, it should be proscribed.

 

The word "hazing" conjures up images of sexual assault and endangerment of life and limb. The reason given for the dissolution of a Boy Scout troop in Tamaqua is not in that category.

 

The striking with a stick was horseplay. It was not an extreme thing. The council's reaction was the extreme thing in this case. The troop should not be disbanded.

 

 

There has to be more to this story that just the stick incident. The first news story says the charter was pulled "in part" because of the stick incident, but as has been commented on, there has to be more. Because the Cub Pack's charter is also being revoked, it has to be something between the BSA and the Chartering Organization. From the CO's representative in the first story it appears the CO tried to dismiss the incident as "horseplay and boys will be boys". The original story talked about the BSA providing counseling, apprently it didn't "stick"

[SemperParatus]

OGE, wood yew be so kind as to keep a log of these articles so that we can get to the root of this issue.

[gwd-scouter]

Reading the last paragraph of the article:

 

I think it is a raw deal. It stems back to the fact that they have been on top of us for years. For this to come up and for them to take our charter away is unbelievable, and I am still not sure what they are charging us with. There will be about 60 boys thrown out of scouting because of this, Geissinger said.

 

Wonder what "they've" been on top of them about for?

[OldGreyEagle]

Oak-Kay, I can, but I saw what yew are up too, willow give me a hand? Wouldnt want to go out on a limb alone

 

You provide the birch beer and I have a couple albums of Black Oak Arkansas we can listen too(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[GernBlansten]

I doubt we will really know what this is really about. Problem is, without more information, we will all just speculate and come up with reasons that might justify such actions that none of these parties really did.

 

From the presented facts, a couple of boy scouts do something that could be construed as hazing (with a small stick), council expels two adult leaders for it, CO loses charter because these two guys show up at a COH. If this truly the case, we should all be shaking in our boots that our charters could be pulled for similar infractions.

 

Reality check. If the boys were hazing with a small stick, an investigation may be warranted, all those responsible reprimanded. Case closed. Chucking the leaders? No way. CO losing its charter because they showed up at a ceremony? No way.

I just can't see why the council would take such draconian measures from a single incident. Something smells very fishy in Denmark.

 

[evmori]

Still no facts! It sounds like someone wanted this Troop & Pack gone!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[CalicoPenn]

There is a quote by Rep. Argall that, if accurate, points to the Council wanting to end their relationship with the Charter Organization, not the people in the troop. It is as follows:

 

"We've been told there is no appeal, although we are trying to review our options,'' he said. ''An option the council has suggested is we can form a new unit at a different church."

 

An option the council has suggested to the troop leaders is that the troop leaders form a new unit at a different church?? If this has anything whatsoever to do with hazing, or with inviting disallowed former leaders to an Eagle Court of Honor, then why cancel the charter of the troop (and pack - which had no involvement in troop affairs) then tell those troop and pack leaders that they're welcome to form new units somewhere else?

 

If the quote is accurate, then the issues of hazing (in 2004 - 2 years ago) and inviting disallowed leaders to Courts of Honor (something the unit, or individual boys would do, not the chartering organization) is nothing but a red herring.

 

The Charter Organization did something the council didn't like - and thats what the big mystery is. What did the CO do, or not do, to cause this to happen?

 

CalicoPenn

[OldGreyEagle]

SO, could it really have been almost 5 years? Anyway, the other thread got me thinking about this. I checked the BSA site and there is a Troop 777 (the disbanded troop was 776) now chartered in Tamaqua, Pa to St John's United Church of Christ, the Chartering Organization that lost the charter was Zion Evangelical Lutheran Chuch so there is scouting in Tamaqua as I beleive Beavah predicted

[bt01]

I think I'm missing something, It tole 7 years to remove a charter???

and 2 of them? A cub scout pack and boy scout troop? Is this the tone of america, Headed by the Schuylkill County Republican?

[Gags]

bt - not 7 years. OGE was just resurrecting a thread from way back when. Glad he kept the log - I was half expecting this story to start branching out all over the place.

 

--Gags

[bt01]

5 years?